Discussion:
World thumbs down for Bush
(too old to reply)
Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen
2004-09-12 01:59:25 UTC
Permalink
Article - 2004-09-08 Inter Press Service News Agency
''Among Washington's traditional NATO allies, Kerry was strongly preferred
over Bush. The biggest margin was found in Norway -- 74-7 percent; in
Germany, its was 74-10 percent; in France 64-5 percent; the Netherlands,
63-6 percent; Italy (whose prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, has been a
staunch Bush advocate), 58-14 percent; Spain, 45-7 percent; and Britain,
47-16 percent.. ''
''In Canada, Kerry was preferred by 61 percent to 16 percent, and in Japan,
the margin was a closer 43 percent to 23 percent. In traditionally neutral
Sweden, the margin was 58 percent to ten percent.''
'' Brazil (57-14 percent) and the Dominican Republic (51-38 percent). In the
rest, he scored strong pluralities, including Venezuela (48-22 percent),
Colombia (47-26 percent), Argentina (43-6 percent); Mexico (38-18 percent),
Uruguay (37-5 percent), and Bolivia (25-16 percent).''
''The strongest negative views of U.S. foreign policy under Bush were found
in Germany, where 83 percent of respondents said their image of Washington's
role in the world had gotten worse. Others with similar perceptions included
France (81 percent); Mexico (78 percent); China (72 percent); Canada and the
Netherlands (71 percent); Spain (67 percent); Brazil and Italy (66 percent);
Argentina (65 percent); and Britain (64 percent).''
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Political Science

by Randy Newman

No one likes us - I don't know why
We may not be perfect, but heaven knows we try
But all around, even our old friends put us down
Let's drop the big one and see what happens

We give them money - but are they grateful?
No, they're spiteful and they're hateful
They don't respect us - so let's surprise them
We'll drop the big one and pulverize them

Asia's crowded and Europe's too old
Africa is far too hot
And Canada's too cold
And South America stole our name
Let's drop the big one
There'll be no one left to blame us

We'll save Australia
Don't wanna hurt no kangaroo
We'll build an All American amusement park there
They got surfin', too

Boom goes London and boom Paree
More room for you and more room for me
And every city the whole world round
Will just be another American town
Oh, how peaceful it will be
We'll set everybody free
You'll wear a Japanese kimono
And there'll be Italian shoes for me

They all hate us anyhow
So let's drop the big one now
Let's drop the big one now

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"The Great Myth
of the SUN-GODS"
--Alvin Boyd Kuhn [1880 - 1963]
http://www.mountainman.com.au/ab_kuhn.html

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Catherine Chalmers' "Cockroaches as Shadow and Metaphor"
by SARAH BOXER
http://www.dbermangallery.com/articles/chalmers-NYTIMES.htm

Catherine Chalmers
American Cockroach
"The Roach is US is Not US"
http://www.grandarts.com/CChalmers.htm
Loading Image...

http://www.dbermangallery.com/Artist-portfolios/Chalmers-2002/Bugs-2002.htm

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Praise the Lord Baby Jeeezuss, and Pass
the Depleted Uranium Ordinance!!

"When you are harvesting in your field and you overlook
a sheaf, do not go back to get it. Leave it for the alien,
the fatherless and the widow, so that the LORD your God
may bless you in all the work of your hands."
--- Deuteronomy 24:19

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S. O. Damocles
2004-09-12 02:13:48 UTC
Permalink
Article - 2004-09-08 Inter Press Service News Agency
''Among Washington's traditional NATO allies, Kerry was
strongly preferred
over Bush. The biggest margin was found in Norway -- 74-7
percent; in
Germany, its was 74-10 percent; in France 64-5 percent;
the Netherlands, 63-6 percent; Italy (whose prime
minister, Silvio Berlusconi, has been a
staunch Bush advocate), 58-14 percent; Spain, 45-7
percent; and Britain, 47-16 percent.. ''
''In Canada, Kerry was preferred by 61 percent to 16
percent, and in Japan,
the margin was a closer 43 percent to 23 percent. In
traditionally neutral
Sweden, the margin was 58 percent to ten percent.''
'' Brazil (57-14 percent) and the Dominican Republic
(51-38 percent). In the
rest, he scored strong pluralities, including Venezuela
(48-22 percent),
Colombia (47-26 percent), Argentina (43-6 percent); Mexico
(38-18 percent),
Uruguay (37-5 percent), and Bolivia (25-16 percent).''
''The strongest negative views of U.S. foreign policy
under Bush were found
in Germany, where 83 percent of respondents said their
image of Washington's
role in the world had gotten worse. Others with similar
perceptions included
France (81 percent); Mexico (78 percent); China (72
percent); Canada and the
Netherlands (71 percent); Spain (67 percent); Brazil and
Italy (66 percent);
Argentina (65 percent); and Britain (64 percent).''
pedro martori
2004-09-12 15:52:22 UTC
Permalink
Incorrecciones

Por Manuel Ballagas





¿TERRORISTAS? ¿REVOLUCIONARIOS?





La prensa oficial cubana está que trina. Y no sólo la prensa cubana. Hasta Ignacio Ramonet, ese apologista de los “insurgentes” iraquíes, se ha rasgado las vestiduras en uno de sus últimos artículos. ¿Cómo se atreve la presidenta panameña, Mireya Moscoso, a indultar a cuatro “terroristas” anticastristas sin pedirle permiso a Fidel y a la izquierda antiglobalista?

Bueno, lo de terrorista es una cómoda etiqueta que apenas basta para definir a este cuarteto de cubanos para quienes la acción es la única vía legítima de combatir a Castro. Hello? ¿Se acuerdan de cuando La Habana estaba repleta de vallas luminosas que proclamaban a los cuatro vientos que “la lucha armada es el único camino de la liberación”? ¿O de los célebres escritos teóricos de Ernesto “Che” Guevara, tan caros a la izquierda ahora como lo fueron en los años 60?

Pero no tenemos que ir tan cerca.

Fidel Castro siempre se ha llenado la boca para decir que su revolución jamás incurrió en prácticas terroristas, cuando la realidad histórica, como casi siempre, contradice sus palabras hasta la saciedad.

¿Será que nadie se acuerda ya de los petardos que estallaban en La Habana todas las semanas en los últimos años de la lucha contra el régimen de Batista? Hay “mártires” de la revolución castrista que no murieron precisamente combatiendo contra la policía, sino por la explosión de un artefacto que iban a colocar tranquilamente en un lugar público. Como los cubanos habían hecho caso omiso de la consigna fidelista de no ir a los cines ni a los casinos ni a los cabarets, el dictador en ciernes ordenó desde la Sierra Maestra los actos de terrorismo más implacables contra los ciudadanos. De igual manera, Castro emitió un decreto en que condenaba a pena de muerte a todos los que votaran en las elecciones convocadas por Batista para 1958. ¿Cómo calificar, por ejemplo, el secuestro del corredor de autos argentino Juan Manuel Fangio? ¿Cómo definir, por ejemplo, las actividades de “Machaco” Aimejeiras, un conocido drogadicto, que llegó a moverse clandestinamente de un lado a otro de La Habana cargando un saco lleno de aparatos explosivos?

Las diferencias entre “revolucionarios” y “terroristas” son sutiles y borrosas. Los primeros, supuestamente, sólo recurren a las bombas, los secuestros y los atentados como táctica, no como estrategia. Los segundos, nos dicen, asumen una estrategia en la cual la violencia y los actos más crueles se aplican como medio exclusivo, no para ganar apoyo a su causa, generalmente impopular, sino para aterrorizar a los ciudadanos, obligándolos a capitular ante los rebeldes. Yo me atrevería a decir que para las víctimas de ambos esto es un flaco consuelo.

Los que ahora cunden en ira santa porque la presidenta Moscoso indultó a Leopoldo Posada Carriles, Guillermo Novo, Gaspar Jiménez y Pedro Remón no son exactamente ajenos al terrorismo. Lo condenan cuando proviene de la derecha del espectro político, pero son en extremo generosos cuando los tiros vienen de la izquierda o del islamo-fascismo.

La realidad es que los cuatro anticastristas condenados en Panamá por planear un atentado contra la vida de Fidel Castro no son más que el exponente de una generación de cubanos para quienes el hombre de acción supera siempre al hombre de ideas; para quienes el revolucionario es siempre más meritorio que el simple político o el luchador pacífico. Tal es el caso del doctor Orlando Bosch, por ejemplo, alguien que –estoy seguro- admira a los disidentes de la Cuba de hoy, pero discrepa de su oposición civilista.

Dicho esto, aunque el objetivo de eliminar al Tirano en Panamá o en cualquier otra parte me parece, en principio, loable, la idea de hacerlo a costa de la muerte de cientos de personas en el paraninfo de una universidad se me antoja no sólo cruel, sino contraproducente. Hay claras diferencias entre el magnicidio y una masacre, y no me gustaría darle a Fidel Castro el gusto de morir junto con una multitud de inocentes, quizás simples curiosos.

La presidenta Moscoso tuvo razones poderosas para indultar a estos cuatro cubanos, independientemente del cariz de sus actividades, o incluso de sus delitos. Habían sido condenados ya, bajo las leyes panameñas. ¿Para qué exponerlos a una extradición a Cuba o Venezuela, donde les esperaba una muerte segura, sin el debido proceso ni garantía alguna? Son decisiones difíciles, pero a veces necesarias.



Puede leer estas columnas semanales también en:

http://members.aol.com/elincorrecto/index.htm



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rbb
2004-09-12 02:57:55 UTC
Permalink
"Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen" >
Post by Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen
No one likes us - I don't know why
Hmm.. United Bushes?
raspberry strawberry and kiwi
2004-09-12 05:13:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbb
"Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen" >
Post by Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen
No one likes us - I don't know why
Hmm.. United Bushes?
Nah, I think it has something to do with the fact that the US
military/industrial complex (and CIA) are back stabbing sobs. They never
mind their own business but want to control everyone else. They've foolishly
wasted trillions of dollars, plundered countries all over the globe, sold
drugs to our children, assassinated and tortured millions, put people
falsely in prison and in general made Philter look like a pussy cat. And if
course they've managed to kill off most of the life on earth and human
beings are next.

Other than that, their mothers probably still like then, but no one else
does.
raspberry strawberry and kiwi
2004-09-12 05:18:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbb
"Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen" >
Post by Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen
No one likes us - I don't know why
Hmm.. United Bushes?
Nah, I think it has something to do with the fact that the US
military/industrial complex (and CIA) are back stabbing sobs. They never
mind their own business but want to control everyone else in the world..
They've foolishly wasted trillions of dollars, plundered countries all over
the globe, sold drugs to our children, assassinated and tortured millions,
put people falsely in prison and in general made Hitler look like a pussy
cat. And if course they've managed to kill off most of the life on earth and
human beings are next.

Other than that, their mothers probably still like then, but no one else
does.
S. O. Damocles
2004-09-12 18:03:50 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 02:57:55 GMT, "rbb"
Post by rbb
"Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen" >
Post by Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen
No one likes us - I don't know why
Hmm.. United Bushes?
Nah, I think it has something to do with the fact that the
US military/industrial complex (and CIA) are back stabbing
sobs. They never mind their own business but want to
control everyone else in the world.. They've foolishly
wasted trillions of dollars, plundered countries all over
the globe, sold drugs to our children, assassinated and
tortured millions, put people falsely in prison and in
general made Hitler look like a pussy cat. And if course
they've managed to kill off most of the life on earth and
human beings are next.
Other than that, their mothers probably still like then,
but no one else does.
1948 - PRESENT
AMERICAN/ISRAELI STATE TERRORISM OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE
Estimated civilian deaths: 100,000 Palestinian people
From the very beginning of the Zionist State of Israel in 1948, One of the
earliest and most notorious incidents of Israeli terrorism was the Deir
Yassin massacre in April, 1948. 250 Palestinian men, women and children were
murdered in cold blood by Menachem Begin's Zionist "Irgun" group as it went
from house to house seeking to drive all Palestinians out of their ancient
homeland. It hasn't gotten any better since then.
Besides murdering women and children, Israelis routinely torture Palestinian
prisoners in jail. And almost all of it has been kept hidden by the
mainstream American mass-media for 55 years.
Just to give you another example of who the Israelis really are: in 1946,
Menachem Begin's terrorist organization blew up the King David Hotel in
Jerusalem, murdering British nurses, in order to drive the British out of
Palestine. Israeli society later rewarded Menachem Begin by electing him
Prime Minister.
The United States government gives billions of your tax dollars to the
Israelis every year. And the U.S. government never pays people to do things
it doesn't want done. Israeli state terrorism is essentially American state
terrorism.

1953 - PRESENT
AMERICAN-BACKED GENOCIDE OF THE GUATEMALAN PEOPLE
Estimated civilian deaths: over 200,000 people
From Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower
A CIA-organized coup overthrew the democratically-elected and progressive
government of Jacobo Arbenz, initiating 40 years of military-government
death squads, torture, disappearances, mass executions and unimaginable
cruelty, totaling more than 200,000 victims - indisputably one of the most
inhumane chapters of the 20th century.
The justification for the coup that has been put forth over the years is
that Guatemala had been on the verge of the proverbial Soviet takeover. In
actuality, the Russians had so little interest in the country that it didn't
even maintain diplomatic relations. The real problem was that Arbenz had
taken over some of the uncultivated land of the US firm, United Fruit
Company [Chiquita bananas], which had extremely close ties to the American
power elite.
Moreover, in the eyes of Washington, there was the danger of Guatemala's
social-democracy model spreading to other countries in Latin America.
Despite a 1996 "peace" accord between the government and rebels, respect for
human rights remains as only a concept in Guatemala; death squads continue
to operate with a significant measure of impunity against union activists
and other dissidents; torture still rears its ugly head; the lower classes
are as wretched as ever; the military endures as a formidable institution;
the US continues to arm and train the Guatemalan military and carry out
exercises with it; and key provisions of the peace accord concerning
military reform have not been carried out.

1955 - 1973
AMERICAN GENOCIDE OF THE CAMBODIAN PEOPLE
Estimated total civilian deaths: 1,000,000 - 2,000,000 people
Prince Sihanouk was yet another leader who did not fancy being an American
client. After many years of hostility toward his regime, including
assassination plots and the infamous Nixon/Kissinger secret "carpet
bombings" of 1969-70, Washington finally overthrew Sihanouk in a coup in
1970. This was all that was needed to impel Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge
forces to enter the fray. Five years later, they took power. But the years
of American bombing had caused Cambodia's traditional economy to vanish. The
old Cambodia had been destroyed forever.
Incredibly, the Khmer Rouge were to inflict even greater misery upon this
unhappy land. And to multiply the irony, the United States supported Pol Pot
and the Khmer Rouge after their subsequent defeat by the Vietnamese.

1957 - 1973
AMERICAN GENOCIDE OF THE LAOTIAN PEOPLE
Estimated total civilian deaths: over 500,000 people
The Laotian left, led by the Pathet Lao, tried to effect social change
peacefully, making significant electoral gains and taking part in coalition
governments. But the United States would have none of that.
The CIA and the State Department, through force, bribery and other
pressures, engineered coups in 1958, 1959 and 1960. Eventually, the only
option left for the Pathet Lao was armed force.
The CIA created its famous "Arme Clandestine" - totaling 30,000, from every
corner of Asia - to do battle, while the US Air Force, between 1965 and
1973, rained down more than two million tons of bombs upon the people of
Laos, many of whom were forced to live in caves for years in a desperate
attempt to escape the monsters falling from the sky.
After hundreds of thousands had been killed, many more maimed, and countless
bombed villages with hardly stone standing upon stone, the Pathet Lao took
control of the country, following on the heels of events in Vietnam.

MID-1950S, 1970-71
AMERICAN ASSASSINATION ATTEMPTS ON THE ELECTED LEADER OF COSTA RICA
From Rogue State
To liberal American political leaders, President Jose Figueres was the
quintessential "liberal democrat", the kind of statesman they liked to
think, and liked the world to think, was the natural partner of US foreign
policy rather than the military dictators who somehow kept popping up as
allies.
Yet the United States tried to overthrow Figueres (in the 1950s, and perhaps
also in the 1970s, when he was again president), and tried to assassinate
him twice. The reasons? Figueres was not tough enough on the left, led Costa
Rica to become the first country in Central America to establish diplomatic
relations with the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, and on occasion
questioned American foreign policy, like the Bay of Pigs invasion.

1959 - PRESENT
AMERICAN SUBVERSION AND STATE TERRORISM OF THE CUBAN PEOPLE
From Killing Hope
Fidel Castro came to power at the beginning of 1959. A U.S. National
Security Council meeting of March 10, 1959 included on its agenda the
feasibility of bringing "another government to power in Cuba." There
followed 40 years of terrorist attacks, bombings, full-scale military
invasion, sanctions, embargoes, isolation, assassinations...Cuba had carried
out The Unforgivable Revolution, a very serious threat of setting a "good
example" in Latin America.
The saddest part of this is that the world will never know what kind of
society Cuba could have produced if left alone, if not constantly under the
gun and the threat of invasion, if allowed to relax its control at home. The
idealism, the vision, the talent were all there. But we'll never know. And
that of course was the idea.

1960 - PRESENT
AMERICAN ASSASSINATION OF PATRICE LUMUMBA AND SUPPORT OF STATE TERRORISM OF
THE PEOPLE OF THE CONGO/ZAIRE
From Killing Hope: U.S. Military and CIA Interventions Since WWII
In June 1960, Patrice Lumumba became the Congo's first prime minister after
independence from Belgium. But Belgium retained its vast mineral wealth in
Katanga province, prominent Eisenhower administration officials had
financial ties to the same wealth, and Lumumba, at Independence Day
ceremonies before a host of foreign dignitaries, called for the nation's
economic as well as its political liberation, and recounted a list of
injustices against the natives by the white owners of the country. The man
was obviously a "Communist." The poor man was obviously doomed.
Eleven days later, Katanga province seceded, in September, Lumumba was
dismissed by the president at the instigation of the United States, and in
January 1961 he was assassinated at the express request of [President]
Dwight Eisenhower. There followed several years of civil conflict and chaos
and the rise to power of Mobutu Sese Seko, a man not a stranger to the CIA.
Mobutu went on to rule the country for more than 30 years, with a level of
corruption and cruelty that shocked even his CIA handlers. The Zairian
people lived in abject poverty despite the plentiful natural wealth, while
Mobutu became a multibillionaire.

1960S - PRESENT
AMERICAN SUPPORT FOR COLOMBIAN STATE TERRORISM OF THE COLOMBIAN PEOPLE
Estimated civilian deaths: over 67,000 people
Under the guise of aid for "counternarcotics" operations, the U.S. Corporate
Mafia Government is supplying weapons, training, troops and $1.3 billion of
American taxpayers' money to its murderous apprentices in the Colombian
military. The real purpose of all this aid is to support the government's
massive political oppression of the Colombian people. It's Vietnam all over
again.
Colombia is the most violent country in the world. The vast majority of the
terror is committed by the U.S.-supported military and right-wing
paramilitary forces - who are heavily involved in cocaine production and
smuggling. They have tortured and murdered tens of thousands of people in
trade unions and left-wing movements, including many human rights activists
and grassroots organizers.

1963
AMERICAN/BRITISH ASSASSINATION OF THE LEADER OF IRAQ
In July 1958, Gen. Abdul Karim Kassem overthrew the monarchy and established
a republic. Though somewhat of a reformist, he was by no means any kind of
radical. His action, however, awakened revolutionary fervor in the masses
and increased the influence of the Iraqi Communist Party.
By April of the following year, CIA Director Allen Dulles, with his
customary hyperbole, was telling Congress that the Iraqi Communists were
close to a "complete takeover" and the situation in that country was "the
most dangerous in the world today." In actuality, Kassem aimed at being a
neutralist in the Cold War and pursued rather inconsistent policies toward
the Iraqi Communists, never allowing them formal representation in his
cabinet, nor even full legality, though they strongly desired both. He tried
to maintain power by playing the Communists off against other ideological
groups.
A secret plan for a joint US-Turkish invasion of the country was drafted by
the United States Joint Chiefs of Staff shortly after the 1958 coup.
Reportedly, only Soviet threats to intercede on Iraq's side forced
Washington to hold back. But in 1960, the United States began to fund the
Kurdish guerrillas in Iraq who were fighting for a measure of autonomy and
the CIA undertook an assassination attempt against Kassem, which was
unsuccessful.
The Iraqi leader made himself even more of a marked man when, in that same
year, he began to help create the Organization of Petroleum Exporting
Countries (OPEC), which challenged the stranglehold Western oil companies
had on the marketing of Arab oil; and in 1962 he created a national oil
company to exploit the nation's oil.
In February 1963, Kassem told the French daily, Le Monde, that he had
received a note from Washington - "in terms scarcely veiled, calling upon me
to change my attitude, under threat of sanctions against Iraq... All our
trouble with the imperialists [the US and the UK] began the day we claimed
our legitimate rights to Kuwait." (Kuwait was a key element in US and UK
hegemonic designs over mid-east oil.)
A few days after Kassem's remarks were published, he was overthrown in a
coup and summarily executed; thousands of communists were killed.
The State Department soon informed the press that it was pleased that the
new regime would respect international agreements and was not interested in
nationalizing the giant Iraq Petroleum Co., of which the US was a major
owner. The new government, at least for the time being, also cooled its
claim to Kuwait.
Papers of the British cabinet of 1963, later declassified, disclose that the
coup had been backed by the British and the CIA.

1963 - 1966
AMERICAN SUBVERSION AND TYRANNY IN THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC
From Killing Hope
In February 1963, Juan Bosch took office as the first democratically elected
president of the Dominican Republic since 1924. Here at last was John F.
Kennedy's liberal anti-Communist, to counter the charge that the U.S.
supported only military dictatorships. Bosch's government was to be the long
sought "showcase of democracy" that would put the lie to Fidel Castro. He
was given the grand treatment in Washington shortly before he took office.
Bosch was true to his beliefs. He called for land reform, low-rent housing,
modest nationalization of business, and foreign investment provided it was
not excessively exploitative of the country and other policies making up the
program of any liberal Third World leader serious about social change. He
was likewise serious about civil liberties: Communists, or those labeled as
such, were not to be persecuted unless they actually violated the law.
A number of American officials and congresspeople expressed their discomfort
with Bosch's plans, as well as his stance of independence from the United
States. Land reform and nationalization are always touchy issues in
Washington, the stuff that "creeping socialism" is made of. In several
quarters of the U.S. press Bosch was red-baited.
In September, the military boots marched. Bosch was out. The United States,
which could discourage a military coup in Latin America with a frown, did
nothing.
Nineteen months later, a revolt broke out which promised to put the exiled
Bosch back into power. The United States sent 23,000 troops to help crush
it.

1964 - 1974
AMERICAN-BACKED SUBVERSION, MASS-MURDER, TORTURE AND OVERTHROW OF DEMOCRACY
IN GREECE
Estimated civilian deaths: over 10,000 people
From Killing Hope
The military coup took place in April 1967, just two days before the
campaign for national elections was to begin, elections which appeared
certain to bring the veteran liberal leader George Papandreou back as prime
minister. Papandreou had been elected in February 1964 with the only
outright majority in the history of modern Greek elections. The successful
machinations to unseat him had begun immediately, a joint effort of the
Royal Court, the Greek military, and the American military and CIA stationed
in Greece.
The 1967 coup was followed immediately by the traditional martial law,
censorship, arrests, beatings, torture, and killings, the victims totaling
some 8,000 in the first month. This was accompanied by the equally
traditional declaration that this was all being done to save the nation from
a "Communist takeover." Corrupting and subversive influences in Greek life
were to be removed. Among these were miniskirts, long hair, and foreign
newspapers; church attendance for the young would be compulsory.
It was torture, however, which most indelibly marked the seven-year Greek
nightmare. James Becket, an American attorney sent to Greece by Amnesty
International, wrote in December 1969 that "a conservative estimate would
place at not less than two thousand" the number of people tortured, usually
in the most gruesome of ways, often with equipment supplied by the United
States.
Becket reported the following: Hundreds of prisoners have listened to the
little speech given by Inspector Basil Lambrou, who sits behind his desk
which displays the red, white, and blue clasped-hand symbol of American aid.
He tries to show the prisoner the absolute futility of resistance:
"You make yourself ridiculous by thinking you can do anything. The world is
divided in two. There are the communists on that side and on this side the
free world. The Russians and the Americans, no one else. What are we?
Americans. Behind me there is the government, behind the government is NATO,
behind NATO is the U.S. You can't fight us, we are Americans."
George Papandreou was not any kind of radical. He was a liberal
anti-Communist type. But his son Andreas, the heir-apparent, while only a
little to the left of his father had not disguised his wish to take Greece
out of the Cold War, and had questioned remaining in NATO, or at least as a
satellite of the United States.

1964 - 1973
AMERICAN-BACKED OVERTHROW OF THE DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT OF CHILE
Estimated civilian deaths: over 5000 people from the subsequent Pinochet
terror campaign; at least 1000 people missing and presumed dead
From Killing Hope
[Democratic Marxist President] Salvador Allende was the worst possible
scenario for a Washington imperialist, [who] could imagine only one thing
worse than a Marxist in power - an elected Marxist in power, who honored the
constitution, and became increasingly popular. This shook the very
foundation stones on which the anti-Communist tower was built: the doctrine,
painstakingly cultivated for decades, that "communists" can take power only
through force and deception, that they can retain that power only through
terrorizing and brainwashing the population.
After sabotaging Allende's electoral endeavor in 1964, and failing to do so
in 1970, despite their best efforts, the CIA and the rest of the American
foreign policy machine left no stone unturned in their attempt to
destabilize the Allende government over the next three years, paying
particular attention to building up military hostility. Finally, in
September 1973, the military overthrew the government, Allende dying in the
process.
They closed the country to the outside world for a week, while the tanks
rolled and the soldiers broke down doors; the stadiums rang with the sounds
of execution and the bodies piled up along the streets and floated in the
river; the torture centers opened for business; the subversive books were
thrown into bonfires; soldiers slit the trouser legs of women, shouting that
"In Chile women wear dresses!"; the poor returned to their natural state;
and the men of the world in Washington and in the halls of international
finance opened up their check-books. In the end, more than 3,000 had been
executed, thousands more tortured or disappeared.
(End of Killing Hope excerpt)
In the bloody coup of September 11, 1973, Henry Kissinger and the CIA helped
General Augusto Pinochet overthrow the democratically-elected leftist
government of President Salvador Allende. The Fascist puppet-regime of
Augusto Pinochet then embarked on a 17-year terror campaign against the
people of Chile, which included mass arrests and executions, death squads,
torture and disappearances. Many of the victims were fingered as "radicals"
by lists provided by the CIA.
Santiago's national stadium was used as a mass execution site. Robert
Saldias, the first army officer to come forward publicly without concealing
his identity, said prisoners entering the stadium were identified by yellow,
black, and red discs. "Whoever received a red disc had no chance," Saldias
said.
Many of the professional torturers and assassins in the Chilean military
(and in every other Fascist country of Central and South America) were
trained at the School of the Americas, in Fort Benning, Georgia.
Under Pinochet, Chile also participated in "Operation Condor," a joint
collaboration between the U.S.-backed dictatorships of Chile, Argentina,
Paraguay, Uruguay and Brazil to hunt down and murder exiled opponents of
those regimes. Successful hits included the 1976 car-bomb explosion in
Washington D.C., which killed Allende's exiled foreign minister Orlando
Letelier, and his aide, American Ronnie Moffitt.
"I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist
because of the irresponsibility of its own people."
- Henry Kissinger, 1970
referring to Chilean voters

1965 - 1973
AMERICAN TYRANNY AND TERRORIZATION OF THE PEOPLE OF THAILAND
While using the country to facilitate its daily bombings of Vietnam and
Laos, the US military took the time to try to suppress insurgents who were
fighting for economic reform, an end to police repression and in opposition
to the mammoth US military presence, with its huge airbases, piers,
barracks, road building and other major projects, which appeared to be
taking the country apart and taking it over.
Eventually, the American military personnel count in Thailand reached
40,000, with those engaged in the civil conflict - including 365 Green Beret
forces - officially designated as "advisers", as they were in Vietnam.
To fight the guerillas, the US financed, armed, equipped and trained police
and military units in counter-insurgency, significantly increasing their
numbers; transported government forces by helicopter to combat areas; were
present in the field as well, as battalion advisers and sometimes
accompanied Thai soldiers on anti-guerrilla sweeps.
In addition, the Americans instituted considerable propaganda and
psychological warfare activities, and actually encouraged the Thai
government to adopt a more forceful response. However, the conflict in
Thailand, and the US role, never approached the dimensions of Vietnam.
In 1966, the Washington Post reported that "In the view of some observers,
continued dictatorship in Thailand suits the United States, since it assures
a continuation of American bases in the country and that, as a US official
put it bluntly, 'is our real interest in this place.'"


1975 - 1999
AMERICAN-BACKED GENOCIDE OF THE PEOPLE OF EAST TIMOR
Estimated civilian deaths: over 200,000 people
From Killing Hope
In December 1975, Indonesia invaded East Timor, which lies at the eastern
end of the Indonesian archipelago, and which had proclaimed its independence
after Portugal had relinquished control of it. The invasion was launched the
day after U.S. President Gerald Ford and Secretary of State Henry Kissinger
had left Indonesia after giving Suharto permission to use American arms,
which, under U.S. law, could not be used for aggression. Indonesia was
Washington's most valuable tool in Southeast Asia.
Amnesty International estimated that by 1989, Indonesian troops, with the
aim of forcibly annexing East Timor, had killed 200,000 people out of a
population of between 600,000 and 700,000. The United States consistently
supported Indonesia's claim to East Timor (unlike the UN and the EU), and
downplayed the slaughter to a remarkable degree, at the same time supplying
Indonesia with all the military hardware and training it needed to carry out
the job.
From Derailing Democracy
by Dave McGowan:
The U.S.-backed government of Indonesia invaded East Timor just one day
after a visit by President Gerald Ford and Henry Kissinger. As many as a
third of the tiny island's population were exterminated using American
supplied weaponry.
The Indonesian government, kept propped up with U.S. taxpayers' money,
continues to this day to be one of the worst human rights abusers on the
planet.

1979 - 1992
AMERICAN SUBVERSION IN AFGHANISTAN
Estimated civilian deaths: over 1,000,000 people
From Killing Hope
Everyone knows of the unbelievable repression of women in Afghanistan,
carried out by Islamic fundamentalists, even before the Taliban. But how
many people know that during the late 1970s and most of the 1980s,
Afghanistan had a government committed to bringing the incredibly backward
nation into the 20th century, including giving women equal rights?
What happened, however, is that the United States poured billions of dollars
into waging a terrible war against this government, simply because it was
supported by the Soviet Union. Prior to this, CIA operations had knowingly
increased the probability of a Soviet intervention, which is what occurred.
In the end, the United States won, and the women, and the rest of
Afghanistan, lost. More than a million dead, three million disabled, five
million refugees, in total about half the population.
See also:

Imperial Hypocrisy: American/British state terrorism of the Afghan Peoples,
2001-2002

The Truth About American Terrorism of the Afghan Peoples

1981 - 1989
AMERICAN TERROR-CAMPAIGN AGAINST THE LIBYAN PEOPLE;
NUMEROUS CIA ASSASSINATION ATTEMPTS ON MUAMMAR QADHAFI
Estimated civilian deaths from the April 1986 attack: over 100 people,
including Qadhafi's two-year-old daughter
From Rogue State
The official reason for the Reagan administration's intense antipathy toward
Moammar Qaddafi was that he supported terrorism. In actuality, the Libyan
leader's crime was not his support for terrorist groups per se, but that he
was supporting the wrong terrorist groups; i.e., Qaddafi was not supporting
the same terrorists that Reagan was, such as the Nicaraguan Contras, UNITA
in Angola, Cuban exiles in Miami, the governments of El Salvador and
Guatemala and the U.S. military in Grenada. The one band of terrorists the
two men supported in common was the Moujahedeen in Afghanistan.
On top of this, Washington has a deep-seated antipathy toward Middle east
oil-producing countries that it can't exert proper control over. Qaddafi was
uppity, and he had overthrown a rich ruling clique and instituted a welfare
state. He and his country would have to be put in their place. Five years
later, the United States bombed one of Qaddafi's residences, killing scores
of people. There were other attempts to assassinate the man, operations to
overthrow him, economic sanctions, and a major disinformation campaign
reporting one piece of nonsense after another, including conspicuous
exaggerations of his support for terrorism, and shifting the blame for the
1988 bombing of PanAm 103 to Libya and away from Iran and Syria when the
Gulf War campaign required the support of the latter two countries.
To Washington, Libya was like magnetic north: the finger always pointed
there.
(End of Rogue State excerpt)
On April 15, 1986, 19 warplanes of the U.S. Air Force took off from their
bases in Great Britain and flew to Libya, whereupon the heroic F111 pilots
bombed the private house of Muammar Qadhafi and violently murdered his
little two-year-old daughter.
At least 100 other people - including civilian men, women and children -
were slaughtered as the U.S. Air Force pilots bombed private homes and
mosques all over Tripoli and Benghazi.
They actually managed to hit a military target too, the Al-Azizia barracks,
which was Qadhafi's headquarters. On April 16 the American pilots who
perpetrated these war crimes openly admitted that the purpose of the attack
had been to assassinate Qadhafi.
For years prior to this outrage the U.S. Corporate Mafia Government had been
trying to murder the popular Libyan leader. Navy jets from the U.S. Sixth
Fleet had repeatedly violated Libyan airspace while Navy ships violated
Libyan territorial waters in bullying attempts to provoke a reaction.
The U.S. Navy shot down Libyan planes over Libyan territory, and sank Libyan
Coast Guard boats in Libyan territorial waters. Here are some of the
highlights of this American terror campaign:
· In the summer of 1980 the CIA attempted to shoot down the plane of
Qadhafi as he was on a flight to Eastern Europe. An Italian plane flying
over Ostika was mistakenly shot down instead.
· July 27, 1981 - Newsweek published an article reporting that CIA
Director William Casey had authorized extensive plans to assassinate Qadhafi
and overthrow the popular democratic government of Libya. This classic
American M.O. included a media propaganda campaign and numerous "psy-ops",
or psychological warfare operations, aimed at creating turmoil within Libya.
· August 19, 1981 - Eight American jet fighters attacked two Libyan
air force reconnaissance planes over Libyan territory in the Gulf of Sirte,
shooting them down.
· 1985 - The CIA recruited mercenaries to be trained for several
attempts to assassinate Qadhafi. One of the plans called for sprinkling a
special poison into his food that would weaken his immune system, causing a
gradual death with symptoms that would not be immediately recognized.
· March 25, 1986 - U.S. Navy warplanes from the Sixth Fleet bombed
Libyan civilian targets in the Gulf of Sirte. They attacked a Libyan Coast
Guard boat, murdering the crew of 10 men. The Navy jets also attacked a
larger Libyan Coast Guard ship. 42 men of the crew escaped into the water
and attempted to swim to shore. The U.S. Navy pilots slaughtered them all in
the water.
· April 4, 1986 - While on a victory tour of the aircraft carrier
"Enterprise", stationed off the coast of Oman, Vice President George Bush
characterized the U.S. Sixth Fleet's terror campaign against innocent Libyan
people as "a tough lesson for Qadhafi" which had given him a "nosebleed".
The brainwashed morons of the crew cheered.
Eleven days later, over 100 innocent people lay dead in the cities of
Tripoli and Benghazi - including a little two-year-old girl. Murdered by
these American heros.

1981 - 1990
AMERICAN TERRORISM OF THE NICARAGUAN PEOPLE
Estimated civilian deaths: over 13,000 people
From Derailing Democracy
Following the fall of the Somoza regime, which had been backed for decades
by the U.S., the CIA formed and armed the covert army known as the "Contras"
from the remains of Somoza's National Guard. Assisted by covert U.S. air
power, this proxy army inflicted considerable death and destruction across
the Nicaraguan countryside.
From Killing Hope
When the Sandinistas overthrew the Somoza dictatorship in 1978, it was clear
to Washington that they might well be that long-dreaded beast - "another
Cuba." Under President Carter, attempts to sabotage the revolution took
diplomatic and economic forms. Under Reagan, violence was the method of
choice. For eight terribly long years, the people of Nicaragua were under
attack by Washington's proxy army, the Contras, formed from Somoza's vicious
National Guard and other supporters of the dictator.
It was all-out war, aiming to destroy the progressive social and economic
programs of the government, burning down schools and medical clinics,
raping, torturing, mining harbors, bombing and strafing. These were Ronald
Reagan's "freedom fighters." There would be no revolution in Nicaragua.

From a talk by John Stockwell, 13-year veteran of the CIA and former U.S.
Marine Corps major:
"Systematically, the Contras have been assassinating religious workers,
teachers, health workers, elected officials, government administrators.
Remember the 'Assassination Manual' that surfaced in 1984? It caused such a
stir that President Reagan had to address it himself in the presidential
debates with Walter Mondale. They use terror to traumatize society so that
it cannot function.
"I don't mean to abuse you with verbal violence, but you have to understand
what your Government and its agents are doing.
"They go into villages. They haul out families. With the children forced to
watch, they castrate the father. They peel the skin off his face. They put a
grenade in his mouth, and pull the pin. With the children forced to watch,
they gang-rape the mother, and slash her breasts off. And sometimes, for
variety, they make the parents watch while they do these things to the
children.
"This is nobody's propaganda!
"There have been over a hundred thousand American 'Witnesses for Peace' who'
ve gone down there, and they have filmed and photographed and witnessed
these atrocities immediately after they've happened, and documented thirteen
thousand people killed this way - mostly women and children.
"These are the activities done by the Contras. The Contras are the people
President Reagan called 'freedom fighters.' He said: 'they are the moral
equivalent of our founding fathers.'"

1980 - PRESENT
AMERICAN TERRORISM OF THE EL SALVADORAN PEOPLE
Estimated civilian deaths: over 75,000 people
From Derailing Democracy: The America the Media Don't Want You to See
Massive amounts of arms, training and funding were poured into El Salvador
to prop up the puppet government against a popular uprising. Featured the
covert use of U.S. air power and ground forces, as well as the training, at
the "School of the Americas" [in Ft. Benning, Georgia], of the leaders of
the right-wing death squads which executed thousands of Salvadorans.
Some of the highlights of the death squad activities included the
assassination of Archbishop Oscar Romero, the execution of six Jesuit
priests along with their housekeeper and her daughter, the rape and
execution of four American church women, and the mass execution of some 800
civilians at the village of El Mozote.
From Killing Hope
by William Blum:
El Salvador's dissidents tried to work within the system. But with U.S.
support, the government made that impossible, using repeated electoral fraud
and murdering hundreds of protesters and strikers. In 1980, the dissidents
took to the gun, and civil war.
Officially, the U.S. military presence in El Salvador was limited to an
advisory capacity. In actuality, military and CIA personnel played a more
active role on a continuous basis. About 20 Americans were killed or wounded
in helicopter and plane crashes while flying reconnaissance or other
missions over combat areas, and considerable evidence surfaced of a U.S.
role in the ground fighting as well. The war came to an official end in
1992; 75,000 civilian deaths and the U.S. Treasury depleted by six billion
dollars.
Meaningful social change has been largely thwarted. A handful of the wealthy
still own the country, the poor remain as ever, and dissidents still have to
fear right-wing death squads.

1987 - 1994
AMERICAN-SUPPORTED STATE TERRORISM OF THE HAITIAN PEOPLE
From Killing Hope
The U.S. supported the Duvalier family dictatorship for 30 years, then
opposed the reformist priest, Jean-Bertrand Aristide. Meanwhile, the CIA was
working intimately with death squads, torturers, and drug traffickers.
With this as background, the Clinton White House found itself in the awkward
position of having to pretend - because of all their rhetoric about
"democracy" - that they supported Aristide's return to power in Haiti after
he had been ousted in a 1991 military coup. After delaying his return for
more than two years, Washington finally had its military restore Aristide to
office, but only after obliging the priest to guarantee that he would not
help the poor at the expense of the rich, and that he would stick closely to
free-market economics. This meant that Haiti would continue to be the
assembly plant of the Western Hemisphere, with its workers receiving
literally starvation wages.

1988
U.S. NAVY MASS-MURDER OF CIVILIAN IRANIAN AIRLINE PASSENGERS
Known civilian deaths: 290 people
From the WSWS article:
"Pan Am Flight 103: Trial opens of Libyans accused of Lockerbie bombing"
By Steve James
6 May 2000
www.wsws.org/articles/200...-m06.shtml
On July 3, 1988 the U.S. Navy warship the Vincennes was operating within
Iranian waters, providing military support for Iraq in the ongoing Iran/Iraq
war. During a one-sided battle against a small number of lightly armed
Iranian gunboats, the Vincennes fired two missiles at an [Iranian] Airbus,
which was on a routine civilian flight. All 290 civilians onboard were
killed.
This act of mass murder by the U.S. has never resulted in any court case.
The captain and crew of the Vincennes were militarily decorated. Attempts by
relatives of the victims to bring legal action against the American
government were rejected by the US Supreme Court in 1993. Despite the fact
that the vast majority of victims were Iranian, the US paid $2.9 million in
compensation only to non-Iranian victims of the shooting.
"I will never apologize for the United States of America - I don't care what
the facts are."
- President George Bush, Sr.
referring to the mass-murder
of Iranian civilian people
by the U.S.S. Vincennes

1979 - 1984
AMERICAN SUBVERSION AND INVASION OF TINY GRENADA
Estimated civilian deaths: several hundred people
From Rogue State
How impoverished, small, weak or far away must a country be before it is not
a threat to the U.S. government? In a 1979 coup, Maurice Bishop and his
followers had taken power in this island country of 110 thousand, and though
their actual policies were not as revolutionary as Castro's, Washington was
again driven by its fear of "another Cuba," particularly when public
appearances by the Grenadian leaders in other countries of the region met
with great enthusiasm.
Reagan administration destabilization tactics against the Bishop government
began soon after the coup, featuring outrageous disinformation and
deception. Finally came the invasion in October 1983, which put into power
individuals more beholden to U.S. foreign policy objectives. The U.S.
suffered 135 killed or wounded; there were also some 400 Grenadian
casualties, and 84 Cubans, mainly construction workers. The invasion was
attended by yet more transparent lies, created by Washington to justify its
gross violations of international law.
(Added note: This invasion was not attended, however, by newsreporters. The
1983 invasion of Grenada was the first major American military assault in
which newsreporters were barred from being present. The U.S. government didn
't want the world to witness the great superpower beating up on a tiny
island and murdering its civilian inhabitants.)
From What Uncle Sam Really Wants
by Noam Chomsky:
No country is exempt from this treatment [i.e. American state terrorism], no
matter how unimportant. In fact, it's the weakest, poorest countries that
often arouse the greatest hysteria.
Grenada has a hundred thousand people who produce a little nutmeg, and you
could hardly find it on a map. But when Grenada began to undergo a mild
social revolution, Washington quickly moved to destroy the threat.
There's a reason for that. The weaker and poorer a country is, the more
dangerous it is as an example. If a tiny, poor country like Grenada can
succeed in bringing about a better life for its people, some other place
that has more resources will ask, "why not us?"
From Killing Hope
by William Blum:
At the end of 1984, a questionable election was held which was won by a man
supported by the Reagan administration. One year later, the human rights
organization, Council on Hemispheric Affairs, reported that Grenada's new
U.S.-trained police force and counter-insurgency forces had acquired a
reputation for brutality, arbitrary arrest, and abuse of authority, and were
eroding civil rights.
In April 1989, the government issued a list of more than 80 books which were
prohibited from being imported. Four months later, the prime minister
suspended parliament to forestall a threatened no-confidence vote resulting
from what his critics called "an increasingly authoritarian style."

1989
AMERICAN INVASION OF PANAMA
Estimated civilian deaths: several thousand people
From Rogue State
Less than two weeks after the fall of the Berlin Wall, the United States
showed its joy that a new era of world peace was now possible by invading
Panama, as Washington's mad bombers struck again. On December 20, 1989, a
large tenement barrio in Panama City was wiped out; 15,000 people were left
homeless. Counting several days of ground fighting between U.S. and
Panamanian forces, 500-something natives dead was the official body count -
i.e., what the United States and the new U.S.-installed Panamanian
government admitted to. Other sources, examining more evidence, concluded
that thousands had died. Additionally, some 3,000 Panamanians were wounded,
23 Americans died, 324 were wounded.
Question from reporter: "Was it really worth it to send people to their
death for this? To get Noriega?"
George Bush: "Every human life is precious, and yet I have to answer, yes,
it has been worth it."
Manuel Noriega had been an American ally and informant for years until he
outlived his usefulness. But getting him was hardly a major motive for the
attack. Bush wanted to send a clear message to the people of Nicaragua, who
had an election scheduled in two months, that this might be their fate if
they reelected the Sandinistas. Bush also wanted to flex some military
muscle to illustrate to Congress the need for a large combat-ready force
even after the very recent dissolution of the "Soviet threat." The official
explanation for the American ouster was Noriega's drug trafficking, which
Washington had known about for years and had not been at all bothered by.
And they could easily have gotten their hands on the man without wreaking
such terrible devastation upon the Panamanian people.

1991 - PRESENT
AMERICAN/BRITISH STATE TERRORISM OF THE IRAQI PEOPLE
Estimated total civilian deaths: at least 200,000 people directly from the
1991 terror campaign;
1,000,000 - 2,000,000 people since then from the combined effects of
depleted uranium poisoning, polluted water and sanctions
Like the terrorization of the entire civilian population of Yugoslavia, the
so-called Gulf "War" was in fact a cowardly, high-tech slaughter, a total
mismatch of military power. 177 million pounds of bombs were dropped on the
people of Iraq in the most concentrated aerial bombardment in the history of
the world. Sadistic American forces even slaughtered retreating Iraqi
soldiers as they tried to flee along a highway back to Iraq.
And as with Yugoslavia, the "Desert Storm" terror campaign was directed
primarily against the civilian population, a genocidal six-week assault on
all the civilian people and infrastructure of Iraq. Particularly targeted
were every grain silo and public water-treatment plant in the country. The
assault included the most extensive use in history of depleted uranium
missiles, and the most intensive use of cluster bombs, fuel-air bombs,
napalm, cruise missiles and so-called "smart bombs".
The Dutch Laka Foundation estimates that this particular U.S. terror
campaign left behind 300-800 tons of radioactive waste from the depleted
uranium ammunition all over Kuwait and Iraq - poisoning the air, the land,
the water and the people everywhere.
Afterwards, wherever the depleted uranium firing had been concentrated,
there were cancer epidemics among Iraqi civilians living nearby. In the ten
years since, sanctions, bacteria-laden water and depleted uranium together
have killed somewhere between 1,000,000 and 2,000,000 Iraqi civilians. Most
of the victims were, and are, children.
Since the American terror campaign, thousands of Iraqi babies have been born
with horrible birth defects. This is something that has never before been
seen in Iraq.
More than 120,000 American Gulf War veterans are chronically ill - suffering
from Gulf War Syndrome. A U.S. Department of Veterans study of 251 veterans'
families found that 67% had children with severe illnesses or birth defects.
Even the United Nations estimates that over one million Iraqi civilians,
including 600,000 children below the age of five have died as a result of
diseases from polluted water - and the American sanctions which deny them
the needed medicines.

1992 - PRESENT
AMERICAN/NATO STATE TERRORISM AND SUBVERSION OF THE YUGOSLAVIAN PEOPLES
Estimated civilian deaths: over 3000 people from the 1999 terror-bombing
Weapons of mass-destruction used by U.S.-dominated NATO forces included
cluster bombs, depleted uranium missiles, fuel-air bombs, napalm, cruise
missiles and other so-called "smart bombs".
250,000 people were killed during the U.S./German-sponsored civil war in
Bosnia of 1992-1995, and in Krajina, 1995.
Estimated civilian injuries: 9000+ people from the 1999 American terror
campaign alone. Many people, including children, dismembered and crippled
for life by cluster bombs.
In addition, over 1 million people who now live in Serbia-Yugoslavia are
refugees from Krajina, Bosnia and Kosovo - victims of the
U.S./German-sponsored terror campaigns of the 1990s.
For 78 days and nights in the Spring of 1999, United States Air Force and
Navy pilots rained death indiscriminately upon women and children, old men
and women shopping in marketplaces, passengers in trains, people in cars and
buses, people in schools, patients in hospitals - anyone and everyone -
everywhere in Yugoslavia.
The American terror campaign actually began in 1992 with the American/German
sponsored subversion and breakup of Yugoslavia and subsequent civil war in
Bosnia. It continued with the "ethnic cleansing" of approximately 300,000 to
500,000 Serbians from the Krajina region in 1995. Thousands of Serbian
refugees were murdered as they tried to flee the sadistic, gratuitous
bombing by the American-backed Croatian forces. American terrorism peaked
with the bombing of the entire civilian population and infrastructure of
Yugoslavia in 1999. It has continued to this day with the brutal occupation
of Kosovo.
NATO/KFOR occupation troops have stood idly by, watching sympathetically as
Albanian extremists kidnapped, publicly beat, murdered and tortured Serbs,
Roma and Jews, burning down their houses and dynamiting centuries-old
Christian churches. Over 200,000 non-Albanians were "ethnically cleansed"
from Kosovo with America's total blessing.
As if this weren't appalling enough, a massive sex-slave trade of Eastern
European women and girls has flourished in Kosovo since the American/NATO
occupation began. The women and girls are often beaten, they are forced to
live in poverty and filth, they are raped many times every day, and many are
murdered. The pimps are all Albanian KLA/mafia with a reputation for brutal
violence. The customers are American/NATO occupation troops (ludicrously
called "peacekeepers" by the corporate-owned mass-media) and so-called
"international peace workers".
Ah yes, "humanitarianism" and "democracy". Isn't that what America is all
about?

1993
AMERICAN SLAUGHTER OF PEOPLE IN SOMALIA
Estimated civilian deaths: 10,000 people
From Rogue State
It was supposed to be a mission to help feed the starving masses. Before
long, the U.S. was trying to rearrange the country's political map by
eliminating the dominant warlord, Mohamed Aidid, and his power base. On many
occasions, beginning in June, U.S. helicopters strafed groups of Aidid's
supporters and fired missiles at them. Scores were killed. Then, in October,
a daring attempt by some 120 elite American forces to kidnap two leaders of
Aidid's clan resulted in a horrendous bloody battle. The final tally was
five U.S. helicopters shot down, 18 Americans dead, 73 wounded, 500 to 1000
Somalians killed, many more injured.
It's questionable that getting food to hungry people was as important as the
fact that four American oil giants were holding exploratory rights to large
areas of land and were hoping that U.S. troops would put an end to the chaos
which threatened their highly expensive investments. There was also the
Pentagon's ongoing need to sell itself to those in Congress who were trying
to cut the military budget in the post-Cold War world. "Humanitarian"
actions and (unnecessary) amphibious landings by U.S. Marines on the beach
in the glare of T.V. cameras were thought to be good selling points.
Washington designed the operation in such a way that the show would be run
by the U.S. military and not the United Nations, under whose aegis it
supposedly fell.
In any event, by the time the Marines landed, the worst of the famine was
over. It had peaked months before.
From the International Action Center:
On December 12, 1992, the U.S. sent 28,000 soldiers into Somalia under the
cover of the United Nations Operation in Somalia (UNOSOM) in what they said
was a "humanitarian mission" to bring food to starving people. The invasion
came when a several-year drought that had taken tens of thousands of lives
was actually abating. At the time, the evening news showed images of
thousands of starving Somalis. What people didn't see was U.S. troops - not
delivering food - but instead engaged in daily gun battles and bombing raids
in heavily populated neighborhoods. In ten months, more than 10,000 Somalis
died as the U.S. engaged in aggressive military action against those who
resisted.
Resistance among Somali women, men and even children to the foreign troops
became widespread. The Somali people have a long and proud history of
resistance. They fought for the freedom of their country from Italian,
French and British colonialism - and they resisted the U.S. attempts to
recolonize their country.
In the beginning of the military intervention in 1992, Colin Powell, at the
time the chairman of the Pentagon's Joint Chiefs of Staff, called the
invasion a "paid political advertisement" for the Pentagon at a time (less
than a year after the end of the so-called Cold War) when Congress was under
growing pressure to cut the war budget. Powell opposed calls that money be
used instead for jobs, education, health care, housing and other social
needs, and instead sought to maintain the $300-billion-plus military budget.
In reporting on the U.S./UN Operation in Somalia (UNOSOM), the human rights
organization Africa Rights stated that troops "have engaged in abuses of
human rights, including killing of civilians, physical abuse, theft... Many
UNOSOM soldiers have also displayed unacceptable levels of racism toward
Somalis." These abuses included opening fire with machine guns against
unarmed protesters, firing missiles into residential areas and outright
murder civilians, including many youth. The report states "UNOSOM has become
an army of occupation."

2001 - PRESENT
AMERICAN STATE TERRORISM OF THE AFGHAN PEOPLES
Estimated civilian deaths: 4000-5000 people
With total hypocrisy the United States military terrorized and mass-murdered
thousands of innocent Afghan civilian people, supposedly in reprisal for the
terror attacks of September 11. As they did in Yugoslavia and Iraq, heroic
U.S. Air Force pilots murdered thousands of women and children by bombing
hospitals and schools and private homes. They even bombed an Afghan wedding
party. None of these innocent, civilian victims had anything whatsoever to
do with the September 11 attacks.
Obviously the so-called "war on terrorism" is a total sham. The real reason
the U.S. is in Afghanistan is to get control of Caspian Sea oil. To get the
oil out of the Caspian basin they have to run pipelines through Afghanistan.
Most unfortunate for the hapless Afghan people.

2003 - Present
AMERICAN/BRITISH INVASION AND STATE TERRORISM OF THE IRAQI PEOPLE
Estimated civilian deaths: tens of thousands of people
In March 2003 the literally satanic U.S. military/government launched a
murderous invasion of Iraq. Disregarding America's widely scorned state
propaganda, there are three true reasons for the invasion and occupation: 1)
taking control of Iraq's oil; 2) forcing Iraq to return to using the dollar
instead of the euro for oil payments; 3) eliminating the largest,
independent Arab power on behalf of the terrorist, racist State of Israel.
Along with its British puppets, the American military destroyed the
hopelessly outgunned Iraqi military, once again slaughtering thousands of
Iraqi civilian men, women and children in the process. The racist invaders
now occupy the country and are continuing the mass murder and terrorization
of its people.
RoboTrax
2004-09-13 11:10:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by rbb
"Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen" >
Post by Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen
No one likes us - I don't know why
Hmm.. United Bushes?
Hatred produces toxic blood chemistry and disease.
As an investor in the pharmaceutical industry I have bias on this subject.
So I shall refrain from encouraging this discussion out of concern for
the health of my already bloated and corpulent portfolio .

Does anyone have any idea how I could make up for my greed and excess
wealth.
Maybe a foundtion to give grant to sickly europeans and or other third
world areas.
slider
2004-09-13 15:12:25 UTC
Permalink
dr hackenabush (robo:) wrote...

Hatred produces toxic blood chemistry and disease.
As an investor in the pharmaceutical industry I have bias on this subject.
So I shall refrain from encouraging this discussion out of concern for
the health of my already bloated and corpulent portfolio .

Does anyone have any idea how I could make up for my greed and excess
wealth.
Maybe a foundtion to give grant to sickly europeans and or other third
world areas.

### - like ripping off the third world for 'billions' and then chucking them
back a few bucks for the sake of one's appearance + the occasional feelings
of conscience ya mean? (giving the waiter a big tip:)

but no... i think you mean something more like now you're rich finally allowing
say the 3rd-world production of life-saving generic drugs instead of having to
buy them at exorbitant prices

i.e. there's no way to become wealthy except at other people's expense & suffering...

as in... ''pyramid-selling' & 'chain letters' for example (outlawed in most countries)

(not trying to start a fight here by the way)

imho one should never hate the river... or the bush :) :)
rskiwi
2004-09-13 18:33:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by slider
i.e. there's no way to become wealthy except at other people's expense & suffering...
as in... ''pyramid-selling' & 'chain letters' for example (outlawed in most countries)
wow you've just defined world economics, corporate profits, the usa
government and why there's mass extinction on the planet.

it's all a pyramid scheme, eventually there's nothing else to raid and
plunder

of course shell oil is runnning out of oil and can not meet demand, next
natural gas will be gone, and so will we and all the plants and animals on
this planet
slider
2004-09-13 21:47:44 UTC
Permalink
rskiwi wrote...
Post by slider
i.e. there's no way to become wealthy except at other people's expense & suffering...
as in... ''pyramid-selling' & 'chain letters' for example (outlawed in most countries)
wow you've just defined world economics, corporate profits, the usa
government and why there's mass extinction on the planet.

it's all a pyramid scheme, eventually there's nothing else to raid and
plunder

of course shell oil is runnning out of oil and can not meet demand, next
natural gas will be gone, and so will we and all the plants and animals on
this planet

### - more or less... just make sure you (personally anyway) don't help to
make it happen any faster than it absolutely has to... & enjoy your stay :)
rskiwi
2004-09-13 21:55:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by slider
rskiwi wrote...
Post by slider
i.e. there's no way to become wealthy except at other people's expense & suffering...
as in... ''pyramid-selling' & 'chain letters' for example (outlawed in most countries)
wow you've just defined world economics, corporate profits, the usa
government and why there's mass extinction on the planet.
it's all a pyramid scheme, eventually there's nothing else to raid and
plunder
of course shell oil is runnning out of oil and can not meet demand, next
natural gas will be gone, and so will we and all the plants and animals on
this planet
### - more or less... just make sure you (personally anyway) don't help to
make it happen any faster than it absolutely has to... & enjoy your stay :)
ROFLMAO! It's all over but the shouting -- we're HISTORY on earth! The
next generation will have to find another habitable planet to live on.

Let's go out with a blaze of glory!!!!!!!!!!
slider
2004-09-14 12:33:13 UTC
Permalink
rskiwi wrote...
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
i.e. there's no way to become wealthy except at other people's expense & suffering...
as in... ''pyramid-selling' & 'chain letters' for example (outlawed in most countries)
wow you've just defined world economics, corporate profits, the usa
government and why there's mass extinction on the planet.
it's all a pyramid scheme, eventually there's nothing else to raid and
plunder
of course shell oil is runnning out of oil and can not meet demand, next
natural gas will be gone, and so will we and all the plants and animals on
this planet
### - more or less... just make sure you (personally anyway) don't help to
make it happen any faster than it absolutely has to... & enjoy your stay :)
ROFLMAO! It's all over but the shouting -- we're HISTORY on earth! The
next generation will have to find another habitable planet to live on.

Let's go out with a blaze of glory!!!!!!!!!!

### - a fairly normal human reaction of still clinging to ideas of glory, right to the
end?

whereas the truth will probably be far less glorious + likely to be more along the lines
of going-out with a whimper... not a bang

(silly human race, didn't even know they were alive :)

-------------------------------

"I lived life without knowing it. And now that I know how to live it, it's
not there to live. - I'm not really a people-hater."

(1967 Scottish gangster Jimmy Boyle in his book 'A sense of freedom'
something he realised while in solitary for 6 years - wrote his book in prison,
was released in 1983, and now runs a rehabilitation unit for ex-prisoners
in Scotland :)
rskiwi
2004-09-14 16:01:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by slider
rskiwi wrote...
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
i.e. there's no way to become wealthy except at other people's expense & suffering...
as in... ''pyramid-selling' & 'chain letters' for example (outlawed in most countries)
wow you've just defined world economics, corporate profits, the usa
government and why there's mass extinction on the planet.
it's all a pyramid scheme, eventually there's nothing else to raid and
plunder
of course shell oil is runnning out of oil and can not meet demand, next
natural gas will be gone, and so will we and all the plants and animals on
this planet
### - more or less... just make sure you (personally anyway) don't help to
make it happen any faster than it absolutely has to... & enjoy your stay :)
ROFLMAO! It's all over but the shouting -- we're HISTORY on earth! The
next generation will have to find another habitable planet to live on.
Let's go out with a blaze of glory!!!!!!!!!!
### - a fairly normal human reaction of still clinging to ideas of glory, right to the
end?
Sure the oil companies & the power brokers aren't aware they don't have the
power (pardon pun) to save themselves, but they sure have some grandiose
ideas about survival here on earth -- and not tenable ideas..
Post by slider
whereas the truth will probably be far less glorious + likely to be more along the lines
of going-out with a whimper... not a bang
That's quite true. Once earth population hits the half extinct mark, all of
the technology they've achieved thus far will become defunct. There won't
be enough people to support it.

I'd love to see human history in time lapse film clips
Post by slider
(silly human race, didn't even know they were alive :)
You mean they didn't appreciate being alive and never learned how to live.
Post by slider
-------------------------------
"I lived life without knowing it. And now that I know how to live it, it's
not there to live. - I'm not really a people-hater."
(1967 Scottish gangster Jimmy Boyle in his book 'A sense of freedom'
something he realised while in solitary for 6 years - wrote his book in prison,
was released in 1983, and now runs a rehabilitation unit for ex-prisoners
in Scotland :)
slider
2004-09-15 00:09:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by rskiwi
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
i.e. there's no way to become wealthy except at other people's expense & suffering...
as in... ''pyramid-selling' & 'chain letters' for example (outlawed in most countries)
wow you've just defined world economics, corporate profits, the usa
government and why there's mass extinction on the planet.
it's all a pyramid scheme, eventually there's nothing else to raid and
plunder
of course shell oil is runnning out of oil and can not meet demand, next
natural gas will be gone, and so will we and all the plants and animals on
this planet
### - more or less... just make sure you (personally anyway) don't help to
make it happen any faster than it absolutely has to... & enjoy your stay :)
ROFLMAO! It's all over but the shouting -- we're HISTORY on earth! The
next generation will have to find another habitable planet to live on.
Let's go out with a blaze of glory!!!!!!!!!!
### - a fairly normal human reaction of still clinging to ideas of glory, right to the
end?
Sure the oil companies & the power brokers aren't aware they don't have the
power (pardon pun) to save themselves, but they sure have some grandiose
ideas about survival here on earth -- and not tenable ideas..
Post by rskiwi
whereas the truth will probably be far less glorious + likely to be more along the lines
of going-out with a whimper... not a bang
That's quite true. Once earth population hits the half extinct mark, all of
the technology they've achieved thus far will become defunct. There won't
be enough people to support it.

I'd love to see human history in time lapse film clips
Post by rskiwi
(silly human race, didn't even know they were alive :)
You mean they didn't appreciate being alive and never learned how to live.

### - 'some' did (or do :) like matey Jimmy Boyle below... it just took him
six years of solitary (of being away from all the crap & lies etc) to finally
wake up to another possibility and/or way of being

plus probably anyone could do it if they put their mind to it... trouble is most
prefer to be playing ping-pong, or something else no-doubt equally totally
fascinating ;)
Post by rskiwi
-------------------------------
"I lived life without knowing it. And now that I know how to live it, it's
not there to live. - I'm not really a people-hater."
(1967 Scottish gangster Jimmy Boyle in his book 'A sense of freedom'
something he realised while in solitary for 6 years - wrote his book in prison,
was released in 1983, and now runs a rehabilitation unit for ex-prisoners
in Scotland :)
rskiwi
2004-09-15 05:08:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by rskiwi
Post by rskiwi
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
i.e. there's no way to become wealthy except at other people's expense & suffering...
as in... ''pyramid-selling' & 'chain letters' for example (outlawed in most countries)
wow you've just defined world economics, corporate profits, the usa
government and why there's mass extinction on the planet.
it's all a pyramid scheme, eventually there's nothing else to raid and
plunder
of course shell oil is runnning out of oil and can not meet demand, next
natural gas will be gone, and so will we and all the plants and animals on
this planet
### - more or less... just make sure you (personally anyway) don't help to
make it happen any faster than it absolutely has to... & enjoy your stay :)
ROFLMAO! It's all over but the shouting -- we're HISTORY on earth! The
next generation will have to find another habitable planet to live on.
Let's go out with a blaze of glory!!!!!!!!!!
### - a fairly normal human reaction of still clinging to ideas of glory, right to the
end?
Sure the oil companies & the power brokers aren't aware they don't have the
power (pardon pun) to save themselves, but they sure have some grandiose
ideas about survival here on earth -- and not tenable ideas..
Post by rskiwi
whereas the truth will probably be far less glorious + likely to be more along the lines
of going-out with a whimper... not a bang
That's quite true. Once earth population hits the half extinct mark, all of
the technology they've achieved thus far will become defunct. There won't
be enough people to support it.
I'd love to see human history in time lapse film clips
Post by rskiwi
(silly human race, didn't even know they were alive :)
You mean they didn't appreciate being alive and never learned how to live.
### - 'some' did (or do :) like matey Jimmy Boyle below... it just took him
six years of solitary (of being away from all the crap & lies etc) to finally
wake up to another possibility and/or way of being
Anything which can shock a person out of being trapped in the prescribed
lives we have will do it. Some people who come very close to death are
changed. Others who've been through a horrendous disaster have been
changed.

And then some are taken from this earth in an extraterrestrial space craft
and returned home unharmed.

Tends to adjust one's attitude about a lot of things. :)
Post by rskiwi
plus probably anyone could do it if they put their mind to it...
Yes the could. Turn off the television and consider that everything that
you've learned n your life might be a lie or incorrect. Then start all over
investigating for yourself what life is all about.
Post by rskiwi
trouble is most
prefer to be playing ping-pong, or something else no-doubt equally totally
fascinating ;)
Nah, most are trapped in the never ending money game -- work, sleep, eat,
pay bills, work, sleep, eat, pay bills -- never really getting 'ahead'.
People work jobs they hate, doing stuff they hate to do, most of the time
bored to near death. The rat race wont allow them to escape and do the
things they have a yearning to do.
Post by rskiwi
Post by rskiwi
-------------------------------
"I lived life without knowing it. And now that I know how to live it, it's
not there to live. - I'm not really a people-hater."
(1967 Scottish gangster Jimmy Boyle in his book 'A sense of freedom'
something he realised while in solitary for 6 years - wrote his book in prison,
was released in 1983, and now runs a rehabilitation unit for ex-prisoners
in Scotland :)
slider
2004-09-15 13:05:45 UTC
Permalink
rskiwi wrote...
Post by rskiwi
Post by rskiwi
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
i.e. there's no way to become wealthy except at other people's expense & suffering...
as in... ''pyramid-selling' & 'chain letters' for example (outlawed in most countries)
wow you've just defined world economics, corporate profits, the usa
government and why there's mass extinction on the planet.
it's all a pyramid scheme, eventually there's nothing else to raid and
plunder
of course shell oil is runnning out of oil and can not meet demand, next
natural gas will be gone, and so will we and all the plants and animals on
this planet
### - more or less... just make sure you (personally anyway) don't help to
make it happen any faster than it absolutely has to... & enjoy your stay :)
ROFLMAO! It's all over but the shouting -- we're HISTORY on earth! The
next generation will have to find another habitable planet to live on.
Let's go out with a blaze of glory!!!!!!!!!!
### - a fairly normal human reaction of still clinging to ideas of glory, right to the
end?
Sure the oil companies & the power brokers aren't aware they don't have the
power (pardon pun) to save themselves, but they sure have some grandiose
ideas about survival here on earth -- and not tenable ideas..
Post by rskiwi
whereas the truth will probably be far less glorious + likely to be more along the lines
of going-out with a whimper... not a bang
That's quite true. Once earth population hits the half extinct mark, all of
the technology they've achieved thus far will become defunct. There won't
be enough people to support it.
I'd love to see human history in time lapse film clips
Post by rskiwi
(silly human race, didn't even know they were alive :)
You mean they didn't appreciate being alive and never learned how to live.
### - 'some' did (or do :) like matey Jimmy Boyle below... it just took him
six years of solitary (of being away from all the crap & lies etc) to finally
wake up to another possibility and/or way of being
Anything which can shock a person out of being trapped in the prescribed
lives we have will do it. Some people who come very close to death are
changed. Others who've been through a horrendous disaster have been
changed.

### - others still manage it through merely acquiring a better, rounder, education
which brings them to the realisation that being an all-time intellectual perhaps isn't
all it's cracked-up to be by revealing to them the 'limitations' of logic...




And then some are taken from this earth in an extraterrestrial space craft
and returned home unharmed.

### - (coffee-spurt + coughing :)) - lol well i dunno about 'that' ha ha ha...
i mean, are you sure that's not just the human mind going to extremes in
concocting logical-type ideas to maintain its own existence rather than facing
up to the perhaps frightening realisation that reason & logic just isn't where it's
at when it comes to certain things?



Tends to adjust one's attitude about a lot of things. :)

### - well it would wouldn't it... an encounter with aliens i mean (smile:)
but why wait for something so unlikely to happen when we can just get-on
with the job of freeing ourselves right now?
Post by rskiwi
plus probably anyone could do it if they put their mind to it...
Yes the could. Turn off the television and consider that everything that
you've learned n your life might be a lie or incorrect. Then start all over
investigating for yourself what life is all about.

### - exactly... there's no way to 'repair' the mess we've already made of
our lives, so tear it all up and start over is the only way out of it... e.g. one
'becomes' the alien visitor (the outsider) the stranger in a strange land
Post by rskiwi
trouble is most
prefer to be playing ping-pong, or something else no-doubt equally totally
fascinating ;)
Nah, most are trapped in the never ending money game -- work, sleep, eat,
pay bills, work, sleep, eat, pay bills -- never really getting 'ahead'.
People work jobs they hate, doing stuff they hate to do, most of the time
bored to near death. The rat race wont allow them to escape and do the
things they have a yearning to do.

### - what i said: ping-pong (and/or any other 'pastime' you can imagine
including all the above :)
Post by rskiwi
Post by rskiwi
-------------------------------
"I lived life without knowing it. And now that I know how to live it, it's
not there to live. - I'm not really a people-hater."
(1967 Scottish gangster Jimmy Boyle in his book 'A sense of freedom'
something he realised while in solitary for 6 years - wrote his book in prison,
was released in 1983, and now runs a rehabilitation unit for ex-prisoners
in Scotland :)
Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen
2004-09-14 21:57:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by slider
(silly human race, didn't even know they were alive :)
A BRIEF ACCOUNT OF THE TRUE NATURE OF THE "UFO ENTITIES"

From Flying Saucer Review Vol. 29, No. 5
by Gordon Creighton


"They are inveterate liars and deceivers,
and delight in bamboozling and misleading
mankind with all manner of nonsense."


This article, which appeared originally in FSR 29/1
(October 1983) [WOW! Twenty One Years Ago!] is reprinted
now at the request of a number of readers, and to remind
all our readers of what lies ahead for Mankind. Ever since
its publication, the article has been treated throughout
the world with total silence, and there is a general agreement
among all Ufoologists on both sides of the Atlantic never to
give it a mention.

FSR Consultant Dr Richard F. Haines expected me to print his
comphrehensive REVIEW OF EXPLANATORY HYPOTHESES FOR UNIDENTIFIED
AERIAL PHENOMENA, and I promptly did so. (FSR 32/2 - 1987.)
But it might be noted that he did not deem it necessary to
include the slightest reference to my work in his survey, even
as a minimal gesture of courtesy.

Four of the leading experts in Ufology in the world have written
me privately to say that they think I am on the right track.
Only one of them - Ann Druffel - has had the guts to say so
publicly.

One of the more curious features of the followers of the various
religions is that, being so dogmatically certain that in their
own particular little faith they already possess the whole Truth
about all things in Heaven and Earth, it almost never occurs to
any of them to look elsewhere and find out what the followers of
other religions may know or may have discovered.

This is certainly a pity, for study of all the great
world religions -- and notably Islam -- would yield valuable
clues as to the true nature of the so-called "UFO Phenomenon"
and would rapidly eliminate much of the fatuous "Space-Age
Mythology" that has been spawned in such profusion over the last
three decades.

Islam knows, in fact, of the existence of THREE entirely
separate and distinct species of intelligent beings in the
Universe, and indeed can furnish suprisingly precise details
regarding their natures and roles and activities.

ANGELS, MEN, AND JINNS

The first category is of course that of the ANGELS or Messengers
(Greek: ANGELOS; Hebrew: MALACH; Arabic: MALAK). These are high
beings created of LIGHT.

The second category, however, and the one with which we are here
concerned, is the category of those beings (CREATED BEFORE MAN
WAS) who are referred to collectively in Arabic as AL-JINN.
Although there is some dispute about it among Arab grammarians,
most of their lexicologists seem to hold that the word derives -
as Arabic words almost invariably do -- from a verb-root, namely
JANNA, "TO HIDE OR TO CONCEAL" -- indeed a very fitting
derivation for the name of these creatures.

The third category are MEN, with bodies created according to the
QUR'AN, of CLAY, or, in other words, this being poetic language,
they have physical bodies assembled from the mineral and
chemical elements of our PERIODIC TABLE -- the "PLANETARY BODY",
as Gurdjieff used to call it.

Whereas the bodies of Angels are of light and the bodies of men
are of the gross elements of the Earth, the bodies of AL-JINN
consist of what is variously translated as "ESSENTIAL FIRE", or "
ESSENTIAL FLAME", or "SMOKELESS FIRE", or "SMOKELESS FLAME", and
it is specifically stated in the QUR'AN (Surah XV, 26 and 27)
THAT THEY WERE CREATED BEFORE MANKIND WAS. (Some scholars have
speculated that these might be the "PRE-ADAMIC MEN" whose
existence is hinted at here and there in the "Holy Bible.")

There has been much debate among modern students of Arabic as to
precisely what these terms "MIN NARI AL-SAMUMI" and "MIN MARIJIN
MIN NARIN" can conceivably mean in modern parlance, and some
scholars have concluded that, in using these terms, the Prophet
Muhammad (the Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him) was
there attempting to describe what Western occultists have tried
to describe by such terms as ETHER, or maybe the so-called
ETHERIC OR ASTRAL PLANES. (I have also seen it suggested that
some sort of PLASMA is indicated.)

(Needless to say, such concepts as ETHERIC PLANE and ASTRAL
PLANE have no meaning for modern Science and, so far as I know,
apart from Dirac, the physicists have abandoned their
speculations regarding the existence of an ether.)

THE SOURCE OF THE JINNS

Wherever it is that the JINNS are thought of as being normally
located, it seems highly likely that the source of many of them,
at any rate, is not very distant from us, and some Muslim
scholars who have become aware of the current Western research
into the socalled "UFO Phenomenon" and have reflected awhile
upon it have concluded and I think correctly -- that maybe the
best way we can start to visualize these matters is by thinking
of the JINNS AS BEING VERY CLOSE INDEED TO US AND AND YET AT THE
SAME TIME SOMEHOW VERY FAR FROM US. IN OTHER WORDS, ON SOME
OTHER DIMENSION, OR IN SOME OTHER SPACE/TIME FRAMEWORK, "RIGHT
HERE", OR MAYBE IN A WORLD OF ANTIMATTER RIGHT HERE, OR
OCCUPYING AS IT WERE SOME OTHER UNIVERSE THAT IS HERE, BEHIND
ALICE'S MIRROR: "A MIRROR-UNIVERSE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE
SPACE-TIME CONTINUUM" AS IT HAS BEEN NEATLY PUT BY SOME
INVESTIGATORS.

The QUR'AN, however, is not clear on this, and admittedly it
looks as though it is very possible that some of the JINNS could
be fully physical and what we call extraterrestrials, while
other species of them are of an altogether and finer sort of
matter, corresponding to what various UFO investigators have
tried to indicate by such terms as "ULTRATERRESTRIAL" or "
METATERRESTRIAL".

In thinking about these ideas, we might bear in mind the theory
of the Russian philosopher P.D. Ouspensky regarding the
possible existence of other, more subtle, levels of matter on
which the elements of the Periodic Table of our own chemical
world are repeated and, if I understand him aright, repeated
more than once, on more than one level. The early writings of
Dr. Meade Layne in the USA about the "DENSE ETHERIC WORLD" from
which he maintained that the UFO entities and their craft
originated should also be borne in mind. (His book, THE COMING
OF THE GUARDIANS, was published in 1958, and may prove one day
to have been very important indeed.) Certain of the benevolent
JINNS may well be our "Guardians".

That there is some close affinity, or some link of destiny
between JINNS and Mankind seems certain, for although the vast
majority of the JINNS are DEVILS, SHAYTANS, nevertheless we are
assured in the QUR'AN that some among their many species are
"goodies" and are capable of salvation. For it is specifically
stated that Muhammad was sent as a Messenger to both Mankind and
the JINNS, so that, in the Final Days, some of the JINNS will
enter into Paradise, while the rest of them will be cast down
into Hell. Their revelation to IBLIS, the Top Devil ( = "Satan")
is in general somewhat obscure. In the QUR'AN IBLIS is
certainly described as a JINN, but elsewhere in the QUR'AN he is
also described as an ANGEL. (Surely the explanation is that
IBLIS is that same high being, originally of Angelic status, who
rebelled against God and is named in the Christian texts as
"LUCIFER?")

Had we the space, much more might be said about the JINNS and
their doings, but only a brief account of their main
characteristics can here be given. Their principal features, as
listed below, are as I have gathered them from all the Muslim
written and traditional sources that I have been able to consult
over the past 15 years. The reader can see for himself the
parallels with the reported features of UFO entities and can
draw his own conclusions. I hope I do not have to labour the
point, space being precious.

THE CHIEF CHARACTERISTICS OF THE JINNS


1. In the normal state they are not visible to ordinary human sight.

2. They are, however, capable of materializing and appearing in
the physical world. And they can alternately make themselves
visible or invisible at will.

3. They can change shape, and appear in any sort of guise,
large or small. (See for example, Ahmad Jamaludin's excellent
report, A WAVE OF SMALL HUMANOIDS IN MALAYSIA IN 1970, in FSR
Vol. 28, No. 5). Ahmad Jamaludin is a Muslim, and he knows,
of course, what it is that we are talking about.

4. They are able also to appear in the guise of ANIMALS. (Yetis?
Pumas? Loch Ness Monsters?) [And "Chupacabras," it appears -B:.B:.]

5. They are inveterate liars and deceivers, and delight in
bamboozling and misleading mankind with all manner of nonsense.
(See the average Spiritualist SEANCE for examples of their
activities, and also the usual "communications" from UFO
entities in close-encounter cases.)

6. They are addicted to the abduction or kidnapping of humans.
(The Scotsman Robert Kirk, who wrote "THE SECRET COMMONWEALTH"
in 1691, evidently "knew more than was good for his health", and
was killed by them.)

7. They delight in tempting humans into sexual intercourse and
liaisons with them, and Arabic literature abounds with accounts
of this kind of contact by mankind with both the "goodies" and
the "baddies" among the JINNS. There are also even a
considerable number of accounts of encounters between the
"goodies" and famous Muslim saints. For example, the book
MANAQUIB AL-ARIFIN has a number of very significant references
to contacts between such higher beings, and JALAL AL-DIN RUMI,
Islam's greatest mystical poet, who lived from 1207 to 1273.

(I often wonder which category of JINNUS it was that was
encountered in Brazil by the farmer A. V. B. See my third
article on "A.V.B.", POSTCRIPT TO THE MOST AMAZING CASE OF
ALL, in FSR Vol. 11, No. 4, August 1965.)

IN OFFICIAL ISLAM - AND THIS CANNOT BE OVER-EMPHASIZED - THE
EXISTENCE OF THE JINNS HAS ALWAYS BEEN COMPLETELY ACCEPTED, EVEN
LEGALLY, AND EVEN TO THIS DAY, IN ISLAMIC JURISPRUDENCE. THE
FULL CONSEQUENCES IMPLIED BY THEIR EXISTENCE WERE WORKED OUT
LONG AGO. THEIR LEGAL STATUS, IN ALL RESPECTS, WAS DISCUSSED
AND FIXED, AND THE POSSIBLE RELATIONS BETWEEN THEM AND MANKIND --
ESPECIALLY IN RELATION TO QUESTIONS OF MARRIAGE AND PROPERTY! --
WERE SERIOUSLY EXAMINED BY JURISTS, AS THE GREATEST AND MOST
AUTHORITATIVE WESTERN SOURCE, THE ENCYCLOPAEDIA OF ISLAM,
CONFIRMS.

Stories of sexual commerce between JINNS and mankind have been
of perennial interest to Arab readers, and it is important at
this point to mention that in CHINESE literature (and in China
the Han population are not Muslims -- only certain of the
smaller minority peoples of the North-West and Far West are)
there is also a considerable tradition of this sort which awaits
examination by Ufologists.

The great Arabic literary catalogue known as the FIHRIST,
compiled in the year 373 of the Muslim Calendar ( = C.E. 995)
by Muhammad bin Ishaq bin Abi Ya'qub al-Nadim al-Warraq
al-Baghdadi, lists no less than sixteen works dealing with this
theme. (Compare also the European occultists' records of sexual
contact between men and female SYLPHS, as well as the copious
medieval Christian records relating to INCUBI and SUCCABAE.)

Most Westerners will discount all this talk about the JINNS with
the usual argument that the Arabs "are barbarians anyway". Let
me therefore point out that, in C.E. 995, when the FIHRIST
was written, the brilliant civilization of the Arabs was
incomparably higher than anything elsewhere in the world except
for China and that Christian and Western RENAISSANCE owes its
origins as much to our contact with Islam (the Crusades) as to
the early percolation of Greek learning to the West.

As a matter of fact quite a lot of the philosophy and the
literature of the Greeks reached us first, not in Greek at all,
but in the Arabic translations secured from Cordoba and Toledo
in Spain in the 10th and 11th centuries, when the Muslims still
held most of Spain.

It is only in the last few centuries, and particularly since the
Industrial Revolution and the growth of modern materialistic
Science, that the West has forged ahead. But in 1200 C. E.
Muslim Science was in the lead, particularly in such fields as
Medicine, Mathematics, and Astronomy, and it would be grossly
impudent to assume that our current "superiority" over them has
anything permanent about it.

8. THE JINNS are wont to snatch up humans and teleport or
transport them, setting them down again -- if indeed they ever
do set them down again -- miles away from where they were picked
up, and all this is the "twinkling of an eye". (See my first
article on TELEPORTATIONS, about the Spanish soldier who, on
October 25, 1593, was suddenly taken from Manila in the
Philippine Islands across the Pacific to Mexico City. In FSR
Vol. 11, No. 2, 1965).

9. The Arabian tradition asserts that, throughout all known
history, there have been a few particular human beings who,
through some strange favour, have "been in league with the JINNS"
or "had a compact with the JINNS" -- to such a degree that the
JINNS have endowed them with what we regard as "preternatural
powers" -- ie., PSYCHIC POWERS.

These humans have consequently become known as wonder-workers,
soothsayers, and MAGICIANS. (Either "white magicians" or "black
magicians", depending of course upon what sort of JINNS they
were in league with.)

Here again, compare the European tradition about individuals who
have discovered how to collaborate with the KINGDOM OF THE
SYLPHS or the FAIRIES. For example, there is the case of the
"working partnership", not more than seventy years ago, between a
SYLPH and a highly successful Parisian dealer in rare old books.
The SYLPH made its contribution by acting as the "scout" and
finding out where and in whose possession the rare books were.
All the dealer had to do then was to approach the owners and
offer to buy!

10. Along with all these displays of prowess by the JINNS there
goes, finally, a tremendous TELEPATHIC POWER and the ability (to
use an age-old term) to "CAST A GLAMOUR" over their human
victims. Our UFO records are already full of evidence of this.

How much of what we see happening today, at the highest levels
of international politics, as well as in ordinary human affairs,
can be attributed to this subtle control and interference in our
lives by insidious and unseen forces! Indeed, this is one of
the prime reasons for the parlous state in which man finds
himself. Some recent reports from UFO investigators hint at
alien plans to provoke war here and drive the Gadarene Swine
(mankind) over into the abyss.

The present-day Christians, who generally seem to have very
little sense of curiosity, are apparently quite happy to pass
their days in total ignorance of all this. But a careful study
of the New Testament (AND ONLY IN THE ORIGINAL GREEK!) will show
clearly that nothing of what is said above was unknown either to
the Teacher and Healer Jeshu of Nazareth or to his principal
followers -particularly Paul. Incidentally, Christians may like
to know that in Islam the full name and title of Jeshu of
Nazareth is ISSA, SON OF MARY, WORD OF GOD.

Long before the rise of Christianity or Islam there were of
course other great Teachers (Messengers) who preceived clearly
the situation in which mankind finds itself. One of these was
Zarathustra (Zoroaster) in the old Iranian civilization of the
Achaemenidae -- about 600 or 700 years B.C.E. The great
religious text left by Zarathustra is the AVESTA, which tells us
much about the Demonic Forces, referred to under the blanket
term of AHRIMAN, the Enemy of Light. Mankind, in this teaching,
is seen as a special creation of ORMAZD, the SUPREME SPIRIT, who
is locked in permanent conflict with AHRIMAN.

"THE SOUL OF MAN IS THE OBJECT OF THE WAR, AND MAN
HIMSELF IS THE BATTLEFIELD."
-Dr. Rudolph Steiner

In our days, there has probably been no teacher who saw and
understood all this more clearly that the great Austrian Dr.
Rudolf Steiner (1861-1925), founder of the Anthroposophical
Society.

"Clairvoyant" from childhood, Steiner [claims he] saw into the
other worlds and planes and saw deeply into the human heart, and
no books or teachings are so relevant as his are to the crisis
of mankind that is now upon us. His lectures throughout 1917,
for example, show clearly that he foresaw, in their totality,
the political, social, and military results and the police-state
tyranny which would inevitably follow from the Russian
Revolution, just as the "Lady" of the Apparitions at Fatima in
the same year also did.

Steiner foresaw what would result in the world as a whole from a
materialistic science run mad: the development of "test-tube"
man, "biological engineering" and other horrors; the deliberate
creation and development of living monsters; and the soul-less,
God-less, dehumanized, computerized, insect-like chromium and
plastic slave world of "1984" that may now be at hand.

According to Steiner, a tremendous and crucial round in the
battle was fought out in the last thirty years of the 19th
century and on the Inner Planes, between the Forces of AHRIMAN
(the term he took over from Zarathustra) and the FORCES OF LIGHT.

These latter are conventionally known to Western (Christian)
tradition as the Cohorts of Michael. Steiner said that the
fight ended in a complete victory for the LIGHT, but that, as a
result of it, a great many of the powerful demonic beings had
been actually cast down upon the planet Earth, with the
consequence that their presence and their influence now impinge
more than ever upon the prospects and the destiny of mankind.

STEINER TAUGHT THAT THE COMING YEARS WILL SEE INCREDIBLE
UPHEAVALS, IN THE COURSE OF WHICH THIS GREAT BATTLE WILL BE
CARRIED FORWARD, TO ITS CONCLUSION, INSIDE EVERY HUMAN HEART.
See Rudolf Steiner: DER STURZ DER GEISTER DER FINSTERNIS: (THE
OVERTHROW OF THE SPIRITS OF DARKNESS), Series of Lectures, 1917.
(Available only in German.)

The objective of the Forces of Darkness is to take over the
stream of human evolution, to merge with it, and to divert
mankind from the evolutionary development "planned" for it.
The end result of this would be new creatures in which those
qualities that represent the highest that we know would have been
eliminated.

Smart-alecky modern man of the Pop Age, the "Trousered Ape" as
he has been called, has of course no use for all this sort of "
rubbish", and immense numbers of our species have discarded all
belief in the existence of demons, along with any belief in the
Great Power that rules the Universe.

(Sophisticated folk nowadays know that the world was not created
by God, but by Karl Marx. And they know that Lenin and
successors are His Prophets.)

There is a delightful passage in C.S. Lewis's SCREWTAPE LETTERS,
where the Senior Devil, talking to one of his underlings, makes a
profoundly important remark: "OF COURSE, OUR GREATEST TRUMP-CARD
IS THE FACT THAT EVERYBODY <b>KNOWS</b> WE DON'T EXIST." (Or words
to that effect.)

Similarly, the vast majority of mankind KNOW that JINNS and UFOs
and UFO entities don't exist. And what a nice advantage that is
for the entities!

But what if HOMO SAP (so-called, self-dubbed) were in for some
big shocks in the near future? What then?

With the recent advance of Science, man has rapidly become aware
of the vastness of the Cosmos and of the probability that there
exist out there innumerable other physical worlds inhabited by
intelligent beings, some of which, for all we know, may be (as
we dearly hope) identical with men, with our tastes and our
values, our hopes and our fears.

It is natural that some among us, surveying the impasse into
which we have got ourselves, might well be tempted to look up to
the stars in the hope that someone wiser than we are might
arrive one day from there and give us all the easy answers.

If there be any truth in the ancient story that the inhabitants
of Magonia, unlike men, do not possess the possibility of
developing immortal souls, and therefore are anxious to acquire
such by mating with us and mingling their life-stream with ours,
what moment could be more propitious to them for achieving their
purpose than now?

Can't you just hear the message of their Captain?

"WE ARE FROM TAU CETI, AND WE COME TO BRING YOU SALVATION AND
SHOW YOU THE WAY OUT OF YOUR PROBLEMS. WE WILL GET YOU OFF THE
HOOK!"
- - - - -
slider
2004-09-14 23:56:15 UTC
Permalink
Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen wrote

7. They delight in tempting humans into sexual intercourse and
liaisons with them, and Arabic literature abounds with accounts
of this kind of contact by mankind with both the "goodies" and
the "baddies" among the JINNS. There are also even a
considerable number of accounts of encounters between the
"goodies" and famous Muslim saints.

### - female et's are fuckable??? - how kewl...

well bring it on! - i'm just about ready for anything by now ha ha ha :))
small tortoiseshell
2004-09-17 00:12:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen
7. They delight in tempting humans into sexual intercourse and
liaisons with them, and Arabic literature abounds with accounts
of this kind of contact by mankind with both the "goodies" and
the "baddies" among the JINNS. There are also even a
considerable number of accounts of encounters between the
"goodies" and famous Muslim saints.
### - female et's are fuckable??? - how kewl...
well bring it on! - i'm just about ready for anything by now ha ha ha :))
i know some of these ladys slides ... and i do not recommend such
practise, at all, unless you know perfectly well what you are doing
.seriously . ..
slider
2004-09-17 02:51:37 UTC
Permalink
small tortoiseshell wrote...

i know some of these ladys slides ... and i do not recommend such
practise, at all, unless you know perfectly well what you are doing
.seriously . ..

### - lol, difficult to be serious about this subject... but ah-well, if they behave
themselves they can hang-around and be my new pets :)
small tortoiseshell
2004-09-18 19:52:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by slider
small tortoiseshell wrote...
i know some of these ladys slides ... and i do not recommend such
practise, at all, unless you know perfectly well what you are doing
.seriously . ..
### - lol, difficult to be serious about this subject...
not un-common :)
but ah-well, if they behave
Post by slider
themselves they can hang-around and be my new pets :)
gotte feed them ya know...
rskiwi
2004-09-18 20:10:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by small tortoiseshell
Post by slider
small tortoiseshell wrote...
i know some of these ladys slides ... and i do not recommend such
practise, at all, unless you know perfectly well what you are doing
.seriously . ..
### - lol, difficult to be serious about this subject...
not un-common :)
but ah-well, if they behave
Post by slider
themselves they can hang-around and be my new pets :)
gotte feed them ya know...
and love them and care for them or they will die
slider
2004-09-18 22:52:57 UTC
Permalink
small tortoiseshell wrote...
Post by small tortoiseshell
i know some of these ladys slides ... and i do not recommend such
practise, at all, unless you know perfectly well what you are doing
.seriously . ..
### - lol, difficult to be serious about this subject...
not un-common :)
but ah-well, if they behave
Post by small tortoiseshell
themselves they can hang-around and be my new pets :)
gotte feed them ya know...

### - please don't tell me 'what' to feed them ha ha ha (i can imagine is enough :)

can't really accept it till i personally saw it etc... although strangely enough
my old mentor used to tell me jokes about them, he even gave me some dumb
novel to read once because (he said) of the descriptions given in it about some sort
of 8-foot, flat-faced skinny aliens, but it was always hard to know if he was just
horsing around sometimes just to wind me up (although some things he joked
about did turn out later to be true so i was never sure about, well anything really
with that guy - he used to drive me nuts sometimes - plus i think he succeeded :)
rskiwi
2004-09-17 03:11:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by small tortoiseshell
Post by Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen
7. They delight in tempting humans into sexual intercourse and
liaisons with them, and Arabic literature abounds with accounts
of this kind of contact by mankind with both the "goodies" and
the "baddies" among the JINNS. There are also even a
considerable number of accounts of encounters between the
"goodies" and famous Muslim saints.
### - female et's are fuckable??? - how kewl...
well bring it on! - i'm just about ready for anything by now ha ha ha :))
i know some of these ladys slides ... and i do not recommend such
practise, at all, unless you know perfectly well what you are doing
.seriously . ..
really! You'd need to be an expert, 'cause most of the female Ets have no
genitalia
Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen
2004-09-17 17:51:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by rskiwi
Post by small tortoiseshell
Post by Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen
7. They delight in tempting humans into sexual intercourse and
liaisons with them, and Arabic literature abounds with accounts
of this kind of contact by mankind with both the "goodies" and
the "baddies" among the JINNS. There are also even a
considerable number of accounts of encounters between the
"goodies" and famous Muslim saints.
### - female et's are fuckable??? - how kewl...
well bring it on! - i'm just about ready for anything by now ha ha ha :))
i know some of these ladys slides ... and i do not recommend such
practise, at all, unless you know perfectly well what you are doing
.seriously . ..
really! You'd need to be an expert, 'cause most of the female Ets have no
genitalia
"Is Heidi Klum an Amphibious Alien/Human Hybrid?"
Loading Image...

HeyZeus'ISHTAR-passion
http://www.almightyzeus.com/gals/lonnie/bumble/qualitybabe.html

Ten Oxherding Pictures
http://www.shokoku-ji.or.jp/english/e_museum/collections/painting/jyugyuzu.html

[1] Looking for the Ox
http://www.shantimayi.com/ox_story/10ox1.htm

[2] Noticing the Footprints
http://www.gurdjieff-internet.com/ebooks/buddhism/oxhearding.html

[3] Catching Sight of the Ox
http://www.santosha.com/philosophy/oxherdingpictures-3.html

[4] Getting Hold of the Ox
http://sungag.buddhism.org/13stage/ox4.htm

[5] Taming the Ox
http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/ox.html

[6] Riding Home
http://www.cs.sfu.ca/people/ResearchStaff/jamie/personal/10_Bulls/6.html

[7] Ox Vanished, Herdsman Remaining
http://www.panlatrevo.com/texts/tenox/index.php?oxn=7

[8] Ox and Herdsman Vanished
http://www.buddhistdoor.com/passissue/9710/sources/art9.htm

[9] Returning to the Source
http://homepage3.nifty.com/sanbo-zen/cow09_e.html

[10] Entering the Marketplace
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Ten+Oxherding+Pictures

Ishtar Rising
http://www.rawilson.com/ishtar.shtml
or, Why the Goddess Went to Hell and
What to Expect Now That She's Returning

Images of the Goddess:
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~catshaman/06mothers/06mothers2.htm

"The main theme of Goddess symbolism is
the mystery of birth and death and the
renewal of life, not only human but all life
on earth and indeed in the whole cosmos."
-- Marija Gimbutas

Marija Gimbutas
http://online.pacifica.edu/cgl/Gimbutasbio

Signs out of Time - the film about
archaeologist Marija Gimbutas
http://www.belili.org/marija/aboutmarija.html

Marija Gimbutas (resources)
http://www.belili.org/marija/resources.html

Marija Gimbutas (1921-1994) was Professor
of European Archaeology at the University
of California, Los Angeles, and Curator of
Old World Archaeology at what is now the
Fowler Museum of Cultural History.
She published twenty books during her
long and distinguished career. She presents
old world European culture as a goddess
worshiping/matrilineal culture.
http://sound.photosynthesis.com/Marija_Gimbutas.html

Lilith Pictures: Ancient and Magical
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/Lilith/ancPics.html

* * *

THE EIGHTFOLD PATH
Part Five: ISOLATION
by Inanna Arthen

Excerpt:
http://www.earthspirit.org/fireheart/fhefiso.html

"... At the farthest extreme, sensory deprivation
and perceptual deprivation experiments in
laboratories have explored the influence of
isolation, not just from other people, but from
the physical world itself. Sensory deprivation,
as achieved in flotation tanks like those popular-
ized by John Lilly [<http://www.johnclilly.com/>]
[<http://www.levity.com/mavericks/lily-int.htm>
and the film, Altered States, attempts as far as
possible to isolate the very mind, throwing it
completely upon its own resources - or upon input
from other than the five senses being restricted.
Subjects in sensory deprivation experiments
report a wide variety of consistent effects,
including vivid and complex hallucinations,
memory recall, changes in body image, and
persistent, vivid dreams. Flotation tank subjects
who worked with John Lilly found that when the
mind is isolated from the body itself, it begins
to freely recreate reality. In very short periods
of time, Lilly's subjects experienced vivid
dreamlike encounters. memory playbacks, mythic
visualizations and other effects.

"Although sensory deprivation experiments are
intriguing, they obviously represent an
unnecessary extreme. Social isolation for
extended periods accomplishes equally dramatic
results. But why should simple isolation -
voluntary separation from human company - have
such a profound effect?

"Our definition of what we call 'reality' is created
by our minds based on several factors that all
affect one another. We tend to imagine that what
we experience through our senses is 'reality.'
In fact, what we think about our sensory input
controls not only our interpretation of our senses,
but what perceptions are allowed to make an
impression at all. Our minds are excellent editors,
and they have been trained in this way by the
constant cues we receive from other people in our
environment. The urge to conform to social patterns
is an overwhelming one. Human beings have proven
themselves capable of adapting not only to the
social structure of thousands of incredibly varied
cultures. but also to the structures of non-human
societies. From the moment we are born, we respond
to countless visual, verbal, emotional and even
psychic cues, which teach us how to build our inner
models of the world. This web of social reinforcement
is so addictive that most people experience great
anxiety when they are separated from it - isolation,
with no other uncomfortable conditions, is recognized
as a source of extreme stress. In the absence of
actual people, individuals in our society often rely
on the constant reinforcement of television or radio.
The instant that societal cues are removed, our grasp
of consensual reality begins to decay.

"Witches, shamans and other kinds of magick workers
often lived on the fringes of their society, and
therefore always occupied a frame of reference that
was more or less different from that of their
community. At the extreme, such a person may have
acted in bizarre ways, responding to perceptions
that were invisible to other people. In other cases,
the magick worker was able to effectively live in
both worlds, acting as a translator or conduit.
But in order to maintain this position she had to
stay semi-isolated. This is often true for Witches
and Pagans today. Many of us grew up more or less
isolated from our social peer group, and our personal
reality includes many concepts that we easily forget
are not shared by those around us. The training of a
magick worker, now as in the past, involves the
restructuring of his or her experience of reality
more than it does the imparting of specific skills.
We cannot learn to travel on the astral plane until
the astral plane is included in our definition of
reality. In order to accomplish this restructuring,
a certain degree of detachment from society is
needed. Serious students of magick may withdraw
from old friends and begin spending far more time
alone than they once did.

"But living apart from society, and, hence, in a
slightly different reality, is not the same as
applying isolation as a specific magickal tool.
When we choose to isolate ourselves from other
people and turn away from the cushion of human
society in a concentrated, controlled way, we are
thrown into confrontation with ourselves.
By deliberately separating from the consensual web
for an extended period (closing our door, turning
off the television, walking into the woods), we
open ourselves to a profound - and possibly
permanent - change. Cutoff from the unending stream
of external cues, the mind begins to rely upon its
own perceptions to fill in the growing cracks. We
find ourselves seeking more and more perceptual
material, and doorways that we were taught to close
long ago slowly creak open." [...] -- INANNA ARTHEN

"Is Heidi Klum an Amphibious Alien/Human Hybrid?"
http://www.brainmachines.com/Transfiguration.jpg

ON QUANTUM ENTANGLEMENT

The following points are made by B.M. Terhal et al
(Physics Today 2003 April):

1) Erwin Schroedinger (1887-1961) coined the word entanglement
in 1935 in a three-part paper (Naturwiss. 1935 48:807; 49:823,844;
Engl. trans.: Proc. Am. Philos. Soc. 1980 124:323) on the "present
situation in quantum mechanics." His article was prompted by
Albert Einstein, Boris Podolsky, and Nathan Rosen's now celebrated
"EPR paper" that had raised fundamental questions about quantum
mechanics earlier that year.

2) Einstein and his coauthors had recognized that quantum theory
allows very particular correlations to exist between two physically
distant parts of a quantum system; those correlations make it
possible to predict the result of a measurement on one part of a
system by looking at the distant part. On that basis, the EPR paper
argued that the distant predicted quantity should have a definite
value even before being measured if the theory were to claim
completeness and respect locality. However, because
quantum mechanics disallows such definite values prior to
measuring, the EPR authors concluded that, from a classical
perspective, quantum theory must be incomplete.

3) Schroedinger's 1935 perspective comes closer to the modern
view: The wavefunction or state vector gives us all the information
that we can have about a quantum system. About entangled quantum
states, he wrote, "The whole is in a definite state, the parts taken
individually are not," which we now understand as the essence of
pure-state entanglement. In that same 1935 article, Schroedinger also
introduced his famous cat as an extreme illustration of entanglement:
A cat physically isolated in a box with a decaying atom and vial of
cyanide represents a quantum state having macroscopic degrees of
freedom. If the atom were to decay and trigger the release of cyanide,
the cat would die. The quantum-mechanical description of the system
is a coherent superposition of one state in which the
atom is still excited and the cat alive, and another state in which the
atom has decayed and the cat is dead. The isolated
cat-trigger-atom-cyanide system as a whole is in a definite entangled
state, even though the cat itself exists as a probabilistic mixture of
being alive or dead.

4) For the three decades following the 1935 articles, the debate
about entanglement and the "EPR dilemma" -- how to make sense
of the presumably nonlocal effect one particle's measurement has on
another -- was philosophical in nature, and for many physicists it was
nothing more than that. The 1964 publication (J.S. Bell: Physics
1964 1:195) by John Bell changed that situation dramatically. Bell
derived correlation inequalities that can be violated in quantum
mechanics but have to be satisfied within every model that is local and
complete -- so-called local hidden-variable models. Bell's work
made it possible to test whether local hidden-variable models can
account for observed physical phenomena. Early and ongoing recent
experiments showing violations of such Bell inequalities have
invalidated local hidden-variable models and lend support to the
quantum-mechanical view of nature. In particular, an observed violation
of a Bell inequality demonstrates the presence of entanglement in a
quantum system.

Physics Today http://www.physicstoday.org

--------------------------------

Notes by ScienceWeek:

A "hidden variables theory" is one of a class of physical theories which
deny that the quantum state of a physical system is a complete
specification. The hidden variables are those components of the
hypothetical complete state that are not contained in the quantum state.

"Bell's inequality", formulated by John Bell (1928-1990) in 1964, is one
of a family of inequalities concerning the probabilities of joint occurrence
of certain events in two well-separated parts of a composite system, the
inequality implied by any hidden variables theory that satisfies an
appropriate locality condition. In this context, in general, a locality
condition is a condition such that no interaction between two entities
can occur in less time than the time required for light to travel from one
entity to the other. For example, any apparent instantaneous effect of
one entity upon the other entity implies locality is not obeyed.

"Bell's theorem" is the theorem that no hidden variables theory satisfying
an appropriate locality condition can make statistical predictions in
complete agreement with those of quantum mechanics. In other words,
there are situations in which quantum mechanics predicts a violation of
Bell's inequality. Another formulation is that any hidden variables theory
that forbids instantaneous interactions cannot make predictions in
complete agreement with those of quantum mechanics.

--------------------------------

"Is Heidi Klum an Amphibious Alien/Human Hybrid?"
http://www.brainmachines.com/Transfiguration.jpg

HeyZeus'ISHTAR-passion
http://www.almightyzeus.com/gals/lonnie/bumble/qualitybabe.html

Ten Oxherding Pictures
http://www.shokoku-ji.or.jp/english/e_museum/collections/painting/jyugyuzu.html
rskiwi
2004-09-17 20:52:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen
This web of social reinforcement
is so addictive that most people experience great
anxiety when they are separated from it
Bullshit.
small tortoiseshell
2004-09-18 19:49:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by rskiwi
Post by small tortoiseshell
Post by Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen
7. They delight in tempting humans into sexual intercourse and
liaisons with them, and Arabic literature abounds with accounts
of this kind of contact by mankind with both the "goodies" and
the "baddies" among the JINNS. There are also even a
considerable number of accounts of encounters between the
"goodies" and famous Muslim saints.
### - female et's are fuckable??? - how kewl...
well bring it on! - i'm just about ready for anything by now ha ha ha :))
i know some of these ladys slides ... and i do not recommend such
practise, at all, unless you know perfectly well what you are doing
.seriously . ..
really! You'd need to be an expert, 'cause most of the female Ets have no
genitalia
ok
RoboTrax
2004-09-18 08:37:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by small tortoiseshell
Post by Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen
7. They delight in tempting humans into sexual intercourse and
liaisons with them, and Arabic literature abounds with accounts
of this kind of contact by mankind with both the "goodies" and
the "baddies" among the JINNS. There are also even a
considerable number of accounts of encounters between the
"goodies" and famous Muslim saints.
### - female et's are fuckable??? - how kewl...
well bring it on! - i'm just about ready for anything by now ha ha ha :))
i know some of these ladys slides ... and i do not recommend such
practise, at all, unless you know perfectly well what you are doing
.seriously . ..
I hunt all sort of spiritual miscreants.
No mask or projection is not annihilative.
Power is power. Jinns have no sanctuary.

No Way
No Body
No Quarter


If they take a humans body they are sealed in it.
The body event-u-ally captured for its criminal actions.

Once dead the hue-man is compensated and the jinn exterminated.
small tortoiseshell
2004-09-18 20:11:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by RoboTrax
Post by small tortoiseshell
Post by Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen
7. They delight in tempting humans into sexual intercourse and
liaisons with them, and Arabic literature abounds with accounts
of this kind of contact by mankind with both the "goodies" and
the "baddies" among the JINNS. There are also even a
considerable number of accounts of encounters between the
"goodies" and famous Muslim saints.
### - female et's are fuckable??? - how kewl...
well bring it on! - i'm just about ready for anything by now ha ha ha :))
i know some of these ladys slides ... and i do not recommend such
practise, at all, unless you know perfectly well what you are doing
.seriously . ..
I hunt all sort of spiritual miscreants.
No mask or projection is not annihilative.
Power is power. Jinns have no sanctuary.
No Way
No Body
No Quarter
If they take a humans body they are sealed in it.
The body event-u-ally captured for its criminal actions.
Once dead the hue-man is compensated and the jinn exterminated.
they came around 93-94. my fault entirely not knowing what i did. took
me a long time to burn them out of the system, but they are mostly
gone now and have no-way of coming back. boss put up a firewall.
rskiwi
2004-09-13 22:13:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by slider
rskiwi wrote...
Post by slider
i.e. there's no way to become wealthy except at other people's expense & suffering...
as in... ''pyramid-selling' & 'chain letters' for example (outlawed in most countries)
wow you've just defined world economics, corporate profits, the usa
government and why there's mass extinction on the planet.
it's all a pyramid scheme, eventually there's nothing else to raid and
plunder
of course shell oil is runnning out of oil and can not meet demand, next
natural gas will be gone, and so will we and all the plants and animals on
this planet
### - more or less... just make sure you (personally anyway) don't help to
make it happen any faster than it absolutely has to... & enjoy your stay :)
Actually the only way any human beings can survive here on Earth is via WW3
and an all out scalar war, before the atmosphere is totally gone.

With earth population reduced to less than a million, human beings can
survive.

Bring on Armageddon and save life on earth.
Jeremy Donovan
2004-09-14 03:06:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
rskiwi wrote...
Post by slider
i.e. there's no way to become wealthy except at other people's expense & suffering...
as in... ''pyramid-selling' & 'chain letters' for example (outlawed in most countries)
wow you've just defined world economics, corporate profits, the usa
government and why there's mass extinction on the planet.
it's all a pyramid scheme, eventually there's nothing else to raid and
plunder
of course shell oil is runnning out of oil and can not meet demand, next
natural gas will be gone, and so will we and all the plants and animals on
this planet
### - more or less... just make sure you (personally anyway) don't help to
make it happen any faster than it absolutely has to... & enjoy your stay :)
Actually the only way any human beings can survive here on Earth is via WW3
and an all out scalar war, before the atmosphere is totally gone.
With earth population reduced to less than a million, human beings can
survive.
Bring on Armageddon and save life on earth.
Yeah, it's all a pyramid scheme so bring on Armageddon!
Thank you so much, friendly internet answer men. :-)
Gotta song for ya:

http://home.earthlink.net/~ismaelstrom/poems/answer-man.html

(be sure to SING it now)



-J.
rskiwi
2004-09-14 03:45:43 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 03:06:13 GMT, Jeremy Donovan
Post by Jeremy Donovan
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
rskiwi wrote...
Post by slider
i.e. there's no way to become wealthy except at other people's expense & suffering...
as in... ''pyramid-selling' & 'chain letters' for example (outlawed in most countries)
wow you've just defined world economics, corporate profits, the usa
government and why there's mass extinction on the planet.
it's all a pyramid scheme, eventually there's nothing else to raid and
plunder
of course shell oil is runnning out of oil and can not meet demand, next
natural gas will be gone, and so will we and all the plants and animals on
this planet
### - more or less... just make sure you (personally anyway) don't help to
make it happen any faster than it absolutely has to... & enjoy your stay :)
Actually the only way any human beings can survive here on Earth is via WW3
and an all out scalar war, before the atmosphere is totally gone.
With earth population reduced to less than a million, human beings can
survive.
Bring on Armageddon and save life on earth.
Yeah, it's all a pyramid scheme so bring on Armageddon!
Thank you so much, friendly internet answer men. :-)
http://home.earthlink.net/~ismaelstrom/poems/answer-man.html
(be sure to SING it now)
Well it was an act of desperation for Shell/Bechtel to use their connection
to the military thru DoE to attack their own country, don cha thunk? I mean
really, a US president AND vice-president having fore knowledge of an
internal atttack on he OWN country and all George did was smirk on
television. So given all of that is there any questions in your mind that
people THAT greedy and desperate wouldn't completely destroy the USA?

Of course not. Plan on WWW3.
RoboTrax
2004-09-15 16:08:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeremy Donovan
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
rskiwi wrote...
Post by slider
i.e. there's no way to become wealthy except at other people's expense & suffering...
as in... ''pyramid-selling' & 'chain letters' for example (outlawed in most countries)
wow you've just defined world economics, corporate profits, the usa
government and why there's mass extinction on the planet.
it's all a pyramid scheme, eventually there's nothing else to raid and
plunder
of course shell oil is runnning out of oil and can not meet demand, next
natural gas will be gone, and so will we and all the plants and animals on
this planet
### - more or less... just make sure you (personally anyway) don't help to
make it happen any faster than it absolutely has to... & enjoy your stay :)
Actually the only way any human beings can survive here on Earth is via WW3
and an all out scalar war, before the atmosphere is totally gone.
With earth population reduced to less than a million, human beings can
survive.
Bring on Armageddon and save life on earth.
Yeah, it's all a pyramid scheme so bring on Armageddon!
Thank you so much, friendly internet answer men. :-)
http://home.earthlink.net/~ismaelstrom/poems/answer-man.html
(be sure to SING it now)
-J.
People came to view childrern as possessions
& property instead of links and creations of the infnite,

The 4th commandment was origanally wriiten ;

"Honor thy mother and father ad provoke not thy children to anger"

Who needs kids with social security and medicaid
rbb
2004-09-15 23:42:34 UTC
Permalink
"RoboTrax" <***@TotallySchilling.Org> wrote in >

Who needs kids with social security and medicaid

Need their smile and innocence.
small tortoiseshell
2004-09-16 22:48:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by RoboTrax
Who needs kids with social security and medicaid
Need their smile and innocence.
swapped country and spent five days with a 10 year ol angel and her
mother. i=m very close to her.,saw her come into the world ...

all good Art,
slider
2004-09-14 12:30:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
i.e. there's no way to become wealthy except at other people's expense & suffering...
as in... ''pyramid-selling' & 'chain letters' for example (outlawed in most countries)
wow you've just defined world economics, corporate profits, the usa
government and why there's mass extinction on the planet.
it's all a pyramid scheme, eventually there's nothing else to raid and
plunder
of course shell oil is runnning out of oil and can not meet demand, next
natural gas will be gone, and so will we and all the plants and animals on
this planet
### - more or less... just make sure you (personally anyway) don't help to
make it happen any faster than it absolutely has to... & enjoy your stay :)
Actually the only way any human beings can survive here on Earth is via WW3
and an all out scalar war, before the atmosphere is totally gone.

With earth population reduced to less than a million, human beings can
survive.

### - our current + seemingly varied human gene pool apparently consists of a group of
about only 10,000 (ten thousand) individuals who survived a distant-past catastrophe that
wiped out everyone else...
Post by rskiwi
Bring on Armageddon and save life on earth.
We watched the tragedy unfold
We did as we were told
We bought and sold
It was the greatest show on earth
But then it was over
We oohed and aahed
We all drove our racing cars
We ate our last few jars of caviar
And somewhere out there in the stars
A keen-eyed look-out
Spied a flickering light
Our last hurrah
And when they found our shadows
Groups 'round the TV sets
They ran down every lead
They repeated every test
They checked out all the data in their lists
And then the alien anthropologists
Admitted they were still perplexed
But on eliminating every other reason
For our sad demise
They logged the only explanation left
This species has amused itself to death
No tears to cry
No feelings left
This species has amused itself to death
Amused itself to death.
--(Roger Waters album - Amused to death)

### - anyone for ping-pong? :)
rskiwi
2004-09-14 15:54:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by rskiwi
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
i.e. there's no way to become wealthy except at other people's expense & suffering...
as in... ''pyramid-selling' & 'chain letters' for example (outlawed in most countries)
wow you've just defined world economics, corporate profits, the usa
government and why there's mass extinction on the planet.
it's all a pyramid scheme, eventually there's nothing else to raid and
plunder
of course shell oil is runnning out of oil and can not meet demand, next
natural gas will be gone, and so will we and all the plants and animals on
this planet
### - more or less... just make sure you (personally anyway) don't help to
make it happen any faster than it absolutely has to... & enjoy your stay :)
Actually the only way any human beings can survive here on Earth is via WW3
and an all out scalar war, before the atmosphere is totally gone.
With earth population reduced to less than a million, human beings can
survive.
### - our current + seemingly varied human gene pool apparently consists of a group of
about only 10,000 (ten thousand) individuals who survived a distant-past catastrophe that
wiped out everyone else...
Probably from another planet though. There's been 5 mass extinctions on
earth, but no archaeological evidence I know of to suggest that earth was
once highly populated by an advanced culture of sentient life. There is
such evidence on Mars though.
Post by rskiwi
Post by rskiwi
Bring on Armageddon and save life on earth.
We watched the tragedy unfold
We did as we were told
We bought and sold
It was the greatest show on earth
But then it was over
We oohed and aahed
We all drove our racing cars
We ate our last few jars of caviar
And somewhere out there in the stars
A keen-eyed look-out
Spied a flickering light
Our last hurrah
And when they found our shadows
Groups 'round the TV sets
They ran down every lead
They repeated every test
They checked out all the data in their lists
And then the alien anthropologists
Admitted they were still perplexed
But on eliminating every other reason
For our sad demise
They logged the only explanation left
This species has amused itself to death
No tears to cry
No feelings left
This species has amused itself to death
Amused itself to death.
--(Roger Waters album - Amused to death)
That's pretty good. True too, except I'd substitute amused with 'kept
secrets' to death. Hidden knowledge, secrets and desire to control have
destroyed us this time around. Our alien anthropologists have culled the
best of us for the next time around, but not here on earth. :)
Post by rskiwi
### - anyone for ping-pong? :)
small tortoiseshell
2004-09-16 22:41:21 UTC
Permalink
"slider"
Post by slider
### - our current + seemingly varied human gene pool apparently consists of a group of
about only 10,000 (ten thousand) individuals who survived a distant-past catastrophe that
wiped out everyone else...
glory be to the father and to the sun and to the holy spirit.as it was
in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end.
Amen.
RoboTrax
2004-09-18 08:27:47 UTC
Permalink
"slider"
Post by slider
### - our current + seemingly varied human gene pool apparently consists of a group of
about only 10,000 (ten thousand) individuals who survived a distant-past catastrophe that
wiped out everyone else...
glory be to the father and to the sun and to the holy spirit.as it was
in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end.
Amen.
The mortal soul/wall of motion-music must cross the bridge of light
becoming the immortal soul and be accepted by the eternal soul/city of light
which is docked where you sent it. Simply is.

Neither of you or any one in shantytown has any concerns related to that
journey.


Thats not to say a good whack with a wet trout doesn,t do wonders for
you'se sometimes.
Jeremy Donovan
2004-09-18 17:14:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by RoboTrax
Thats not to say a good whack with a wet trout doesn,t do wonders for
you'se sometimes.
Nice image. :-) (Thhhhwaacckkk!! LOL.)

I'm definitely going to look for Masked and Anonymous. Perhaps today.



-Jer
small tortoiseshell
2004-09-18 20:36:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by RoboTrax
"slider"
Post by slider
### - our current + seemingly varied human gene pool apparently consists of a group of
about only 10,000 (ten thousand) individuals who survived a distant-past catastrophe that
wiped out everyone else...
glory be to the father and to the sun and to the holy spirit.as it was
in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end.
Amen.
The mortal soul/wall of motion-music must cross the bridge of light
becoming the immortal soul and be accepted by the eternal soul/city of light
which is docked where you sent it. Simply is.
Neither of you or any one in shantytown has any concerns related to that
journey.
oh eye have. very much so...
Post by RoboTrax
Thats not to say a good whack with a wet trout doesn,t do wonders for
you'se sometimes.
perhaps. was howling four hours in hell yesterday,literally. still shakin
H. Bosch
2004-09-14 17:11:45 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 16:12:25 +0100, "slider"
Post by slider
i.e. there's no way to become wealthy except at
other people's expense & suffering...
Post by slider
as in... ''pyramid-selling' & 'chain letters' for
example (outlawed in most countries)
wow you've just defined world economics, corporate
profits, the usa
government and why there's mass extinction on the
planet.
it's all a pyramid scheme, eventually there's nothing
else to raid and
plunder
of course shell oil is runnning out of oil and can
not meet demand, next
natural gas will be gone, and so will we and all the
plants and animals on
this planet
Damn! I didn't know that plants and animals used oil
and natural gas.

H
RoboTrax
2004-09-15 15:52:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by slider
dr hackenabush (robo:) wrote...
Hatred produces toxic blood chemistry and disease.
As an investor in the pharmaceutical industry I have bias on this subject.
So I shall refrain from encouraging this discussion out of concern for
the health of my already bloated and corpulent portfolio .
Does anyone have any idea how I could make up for my greed and excess
wealth.
Maybe a foundtion to give grant to sickly europeans and or other third
world areas.
### - like ripping off the third world for 'billions' and then chucking them
back a few bucks for the sake of one's appearance + the occasional feelings
of conscience ya mean? (giving the waiter a big tip:)
but no... i think you mean something more like now you're rich finally allowing
say the 3rd-world production of life-saving generic drugs instead of having to
buy them at exorbitant prices
i.e. there's no way to become wealthy except at other people's expense & suffering...
as in... ''pyramid-selling' & 'chain letters' for example (outlawed in most countries)
(not trying to start a fight here by the way)
imho one should never hate the river... or the bush :) :)
I wouln,t fight you for the word/world
I gave up on lightmach/vacumn pressure 23
long ago, I just maintain an outpost/bouy for
navigation purposes,
Plus I dig buttered popcorn and good movies.
slider
2004-09-15 20:32:03 UTC
Permalink
RoboTrax wrote...
Post by slider
i.e. there's no way to become wealthy except at other people's expense & suffering...
as in... ''pyramid-selling' & 'chain letters' for example (outlawed in most countries)
(not trying to start a fight here by the way)
imho one should never hate the river... or the bush :) :)
I wouln,t fight you for the word/world
I gave up on lightmach/vacumn pressure 23
long ago, I just maintain an outpost/bouy for
navigation purposes,
Plus I dig buttered popcorn and good movies.

### - just saw a good one called 'The Butterfly Effect' about time travel
which, if you haven't seen it already, you'll probably like too...

"Chaos was the law of nature; order was the dream of man." --Henry Brook Adams
rskiwi
2004-09-15 20:41:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by slider
"Chaos was the law of nature; order was the dream of man." --Henry Brook Adams
That's backwards.

Chaos is the dream of man, order is the law of nature.
slider
2004-09-15 21:32:33 UTC
Permalink
rskiwi wrote...
Post by slider
"Chaos was the law of nature; order was the dream of man." --Henry Brook Adams
That's backwards.

Chaos is the dream of man, order is the law of nature.

### - that sounds more like something Isaac Newton would have written (wrong! :)
rskiwi
2004-09-15 23:56:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by slider
rskiwi wrote...
Post by slider
"Chaos was the law of nature; order was the dream of man." --Henry Brook Adams
That's backwards.
Chaos is the dream of man, order is the law of nature.
### - that sounds more like something Isaac Newton would have written (wrong! :)
Nah, more like Einstein. There is order in the Universe, not chaos. :)

The same physics principles which created us, also created the Universe.
And it's the same principles all over the entire Universe!

Universal 'Law' of order, not chaos!
slider
2004-09-16 10:37:54 UTC
Permalink
rskiwi wrote...
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
"Chaos was the law of nature; order was the dream of man." --Henry Brook Adams
That's backwards.
Chaos is the dream of man, order is the law of nature.
### - that sounds more like something Isaac Newton would have written (wrong! :)
Nah, more like Einstein. There is order in the Universe, not chaos. :)

The same physics principles which created us, also created the Universe.
And it's the same principles all over the entire Universe!

Universal 'Law' of order, not chaos!

### - the universe is not a ticking clock, there's no law...
that's just mankind imagining there are/wanting them to exist and
then seeing/finding pretty patterns in the clouds and saying i told you so :)

i.e. only humans think/perceive in terms of there being laws... because that
makes everything much more logically simple & tidy for what has become
ostensibly a race of bookkeepers :)


"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and
as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality. "
--Albert Einstein


"All our lauded technological progress -- our very civilization - is like the axe
in the hand of the pathological criminal."
--Albert Einstein :)
rskiwi
2004-09-16 18:58:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by slider
rskiwi wrote...
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
"Chaos was the law of nature; order was the dream of man." --Henry Brook Adams
That's backwards.
Chaos is the dream of man, order is the law of nature.
### - that sounds more like something Isaac Newton would have written (wrong! :)
Nah, more like Einstein. There is order in the Universe, not chaos. :)
The same physics principles which created us, also created the Universe.
And it's the same principles all over the entire Universe!
Universal 'Law' of order, not chaos!
### - the universe is not a ticking clock, there's no law...
that's just mankind imagining there are/wanting them to exist and
then seeing/finding pretty patterns in the clouds and saying i told you so :)
Human imagination or desire can not prevent galaxies from colliding or
construct new galaxies from the old ones, but the Universe can!

How does it do that?!?
Post by slider
i.e. only humans think/perceive in terms of there being laws...
Human think that they can break the laws and will not get caught if no one
knows.

But the Universe 'knows'.
Post by slider
because that
makes everything much more logically simple & tidy for what has become
ostensibly a race of bookkeepers :)
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and
as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality. "
--Albert Einstein
"All our lauded technological progress -- our very civilization - is like the axe
in the hand of the pathological criminal."
--Albert Einstein :)
Daedalus
2004-09-16 19:04:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
rskiwi wrote...
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
"Chaos was the law of nature; order was the dream of man." --Henry Brook Adams
That's backwards.
Chaos is the dream of man, order is the law of nature.
### - that sounds more like something Isaac Newton would have written (wrong! :)
Nah, more like Einstein. There is order in the Universe, not chaos. :)
The same physics principles which created us, also created the Universe.
And it's the same principles all over the entire Universe!
Universal 'Law' of order, not chaos!
### - the universe is not a ticking clock, there's no law...
that's just mankind imagining there are/wanting them to exist and
then seeing/finding pretty patterns in the clouds and saying i told you so :)
Human imagination or desire can not prevent galaxies from colliding or
construct new galaxies from the old ones, but the Universe can!
How does it do that?!?
Thanks to Bechtel petroleum products!
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
i.e. only humans think/perceive in terms of there being laws...
Human think that they can break the laws and will not get caught if no one
knows.
But the Universe 'knows'.
And I bet the universe would have better things to worry about even if
it were a sentient being, you fruitbasket.

Alexa still thinks earth is the center of the universe and she's in
the center of earth.


From Prussia with Lube!

Jade
slider
2004-09-17 00:30:25 UTC
Permalink
rskiwi wrote...
Post by rskiwi
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
"Chaos was the law of nature; order was the dream of man." --Henry Brook Adams
That's backwards.
Chaos is the dream of man, order is the law of nature.
### - that sounds more like something Isaac Newton would have written (wrong! :)
Nah, more like Einstein. There is order in the Universe, not chaos. :)
The same physics principles which created us, also created the Universe.
And it's the same principles all over the entire Universe!
Universal 'Law' of order, not chaos!
### - the universe is not a ticking clock, there's no law...
that's just mankind imagining there are/wanting them to exist and
then seeing/finding pretty patterns in the clouds and saying i told you so :)
Human imagination or desire can not prevent galaxies from colliding or
construct new galaxies from the old ones, but the Universe can!

### - it sho' can! :)


How does it do that?!?

### - how? what? why? when? - where's the 'acceptance' in that!

i.e. perhaps we'll *never* know about those things... the truly hard part is accepting
it?

plus if that's true... then we've (humanity i mean) been wasting our precious + unique
time trying to work out & understand what can't ever BE worked out OR understood in any
kind of rational manner the way we'd 'like' it to... that what we're got to do really is
to try and adjust ourselves and our ideas to the world instead of trying to adjust the
world (& the universe) to our 'ideas' of it...
Post by rskiwi
i.e. only humans think/perceive in terms of there being laws...
Human think that they can break the laws and will not get caught if no one
knows.

But the Universe 'knows'.

### - imho we can 'never' see through the eyes of the universe my friend... but we CAN see
through our own which should be more than enough to wonder at it all... plus have the
courage to NOT know, nor understand :)

i.e. you've got to let it all go Neo... free your mind :)
http://www.funnyfair.com/free-your-mind.htm (play the game:)

"Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts."
--Albert Einstein :)
rskiwi
2004-09-17 04:17:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by slider
rskiwi wrote...
Post by rskiwi
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
"Chaos was the law of nature; order was the dream of man." --Henry Brook Adams
That's backwards.
Chaos is the dream of man, order is the law of nature.
### - that sounds more like something Isaac Newton would have written (wrong! :)
Nah, more like Einstein. There is order in the Universe, not chaos. :)
The same physics principles which created us, also created the Universe.
And it's the same principles all over the entire Universe!
Universal 'Law' of order, not chaos!
### - the universe is not a ticking clock, there's no law...
that's just mankind imagining there are/wanting them to exist and
then seeing/finding pretty patterns in the clouds and saying i told you so :)
Human imagination or desire can not prevent galaxies from colliding or
construct new galaxies from the old ones, but the Universe can!
### - it sho' can! :)
How does it do that?!?
### - how? what? why? when? - where's the 'acceptance' in that!
i.e. perhaps we'll *never* know about those things... the truly hard part is accepting
it?
Accepting the fact that the Universe is in control of us, rather than human
beings being in control of the Universe is difficult for human beings to
accept. They have yet to acknowledge that and if they don't, then they
can't survive.
Post by slider
plus if that's true... then we've (humanity i mean) been wasting our precious + unique
time trying to work out & understand what can't ever BE worked out OR understood in any
kind of rational manner the way we'd 'like' it to... that what we're got to do really is
to try and adjust ourselves and our ideas to the world instead of trying to adjust the
world (& the universe) to our 'ideas' of it...
Yep. see above. Human beings need to be more flexible in their willingness
to change, and that's something they doggedly refuse to do.
Post by slider
Post by rskiwi
i.e. only humans think/perceive in terms of there being laws...
Human think that they can break the laws and will not get caught if no one
knows.
But the Universe 'knows'.
### - imho we can 'never' see through the eyes of the universe my friend... but we CAN see
through our own which should be more than enough to wonder at it all... plus have the
courage to NOT know, nor understand :)
Absolutely, I agree. It's perfectly okay to say "I don't know", but equally
fascinating to say "Let's try to find out!".
Post by slider
i.e. you've got to let it all go Neo... free your mind :)
http://www.funnyfair.com/free-your-mind.htm (play the game:)
"Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts."
--Albert Einstein :)
Thanks! I enjoyed chatting with you, you have a good mind. :)
slider
2004-09-18 15:16:59 UTC
Permalink
rskiwi wrote...
Post by rskiwi
How does it do that?!?
### - how? what? why? when? - where's the 'acceptance' in that!
i.e. perhaps we'll *never* know about those things... the truly hard part is accepting
it?
Accepting the fact that the Universe is in control of us, rather than human
beings being in control of the Universe is difficult for human beings to
accept. They have yet to acknowledge that and if they don't, then they
can't survive.

### - (sssssssssssh... they are asleep + dreaming of being the masters heh heh
(have to look after them really :)
Post by rskiwi
### - imho we can 'never' see through the eyes of the universe my friend... but we CAN see
through our own which should be more than enough to wonder at it all... plus have the
courage to NOT know, nor understand :)
Absolutely, I agree. It's perfectly okay to say "I don't know", but equally
fascinating to say "Let's try to find out!".

### - one only 'knows' things directly? (i.e. in the moment & during the
experience itself...) - imho everything else is only a form of intellectual chewing
of the cud (leading to an isolated world of regurgitated experiences? heh:)
which are perforce immediately blanked-out (swallowed & forgotten:) as/when
the very next 'experience' begins... (if/when it ever does, considering most people
opt for cud-chewing as being the only reality :)
Post by rskiwi
"Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts."
--Albert Einstein :)
Thanks! I enjoyed chatting with you, you have a good mind. :)

### - smile... it's still very naughty on-occasion tho' heh heh...

just trying to do the best i can under the circumstances...

stay cool :)
rskiwi
2004-09-18 15:33:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by slider
rskiwi wrote...
Post by rskiwi
How does it do that?!?
### - how? what? why? when? - where's the 'acceptance' in that!
i.e. perhaps we'll *never* know about those things... the truly hard part is accepting
it?
Accepting the fact that the Universe is in control of us, rather than human
beings being in control of the Universe is difficult for human beings to
accept. They have yet to acknowledge that and if they don't, then they
can't survive.
### - (sssssssssssh... they are asleep + dreaming of being the masters heh heh
(have to look after them really :)
There is no one looking out for human beings' or their survival. There's
extraterrestrial beings looking AT human beings as they spend all of their
time praying for survival after death. Human beings believe the only way to
survive is to die.

But the reality is, the universe doesn't care whether or not humans exist.
Post by slider
Post by rskiwi
### - imho we can 'never' see through the eyes of the universe my friend... but we CAN
see
Post by rskiwi
through our own which should be more than enough to wonder at it all... plus have the
courage to NOT know, nor understand :)
Absolutely, I agree. It's perfectly okay to say "I don't know", but equally
fascinating to say "Let's try to find out!".
### - one only 'knows' things directly? (i.e. in the moment & during the
experience itself...) - imho everything else is only a form of intellectual chewing
of the cud (leading to an isolated world of regurgitated experiences? heh:)
which are perforce immediately blanked-out (swallowed & forgotten:) as/when
the very next 'experience' begins... (if/when it ever does, considering most people
opt for cud-chewing as being the only reality :)
That's why the aliens call human beings "foolish talkers".
Post by slider
Post by rskiwi
"Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts."
--Albert Einstein :)
Thanks! I enjoyed chatting with you, you have a good mind. :)
### - smile... it's still very naughty on-occasion tho' heh heh...
just trying to do the best i can under the circumstances...
The circumstances are human beings are well on the road to extinction and
will get their death wish.
Post by slider
stay cool :)
I'm wondering what perspective you'll have after you're dead.
slider
2004-09-18 22:53:36 UTC
Permalink
rskiwi wrote...
Post by rskiwi
Accepting the fact that the Universe is in control of us, rather than human
beings being in control of the Universe is difficult for human beings to
accept. They have yet to acknowledge that and if they don't, then they
can't survive.
### - (sssssssssssh... they are asleep + dreaming of being the masters heh heh
(have to look after them really :)
There is no one looking out for human beings' or their survival.

### - exactly... therefore we have to (learn to) look after 'ourselves' :)



There's
extraterrestrial beings looking AT human beings as they spend all of their
time praying for survival after death. Human beings believe the only way to
survive is to die.

### - do you really thinks there's aliens? - i can't be so optimistic really, and
never seen one (or anything like it) except in dreams...but basically it's the only
hope humanity has... (some hope:)



But the reality is, the universe doesn't care whether or not humans exist.

### - no more than your leg cares that your hand exists... but humans are
certainly 'part' of it (the universe) whatever 'it' is... (although i'm beginning to
stop thinking that humanity is the 'brain' (or some strange aspect of self-awareness
i mean) of the universe - we're just too dumb to be that lol (perhaps the dick? hahaha :))
Post by rskiwi
### - one only 'knows' things directly? (i.e. in the moment & during the
experience itself...) - imho everything else is only a form of intellectual chewing
of the cud (leading to an isolated world of regurgitated experiences? heh:)
which are perforce immediately blanked-out (swallowed & forgotten:) as/when
the very next 'experience' begins... (if/when it ever does, considering most people
opt for cud-chewing as being the only reality :)
That's why the aliens call human beings "foolish talkers".

### - how do you know this?
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
"Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts."
--Albert Einstein :)
Thanks! I enjoyed chatting with you, you have a good mind. :)
### - smile... it's still very naughty on-occasion tho' heh heh...
just trying to do the best i can under the circumstances...
The circumstances are human beings are well on the road to extinction and
will get their death wish.

### - does seem that humanity has that dis-ease of teenagers: self-harming, no?:)
Post by rskiwi
stay cool :)
I'm wondering what perspective you'll have after you're dead.

### - if there's anything at all of me left after i'm dead (something i rather doubt) then
i hope it just 'keeps-on' doing the best it can under the circumstances... what else! :)

and if there's nothing... then it doesn't really matter (smile :)

just be here now :)
rskiwi
2004-09-19 00:33:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by slider
rskiwi wrote...
Post by rskiwi
Accepting the fact that the Universe is in control of us, rather than human
beings being in control of the Universe is difficult for human beings to
accept. They have yet to acknowledge that and if they don't, then they
can't survive.
### - (sssssssssssh... they are asleep + dreaming of being the masters heh heh
(have to look after them really :)
There is no one looking out for human beings' or their survival.
### - exactly... therefore we have to (learn to) look after 'ourselves' :)
Human beings believe they don't have to take care of anything, that their
various gods will do that for them.
Post by slider
There's
extraterrestrial beings looking AT human beings as they spend all of their
time praying for survival after death. Human beings believe the only way to
survive is to die.
### - do you really thinks there's aliens? - i can't be so optimistic really, and
never seen one (or anything like it) except in dreams...but basically it's the only
hope humanity has... (some hope:)
Yes, extraterrestrials do exist, but they are no hope for humans at all.
They've never helped human beings nor have they hindered them. They just
watch wondering when human beings will realize that they alone are their
only route to survival. But humans still believe they can do what ever they
want and survive. But they can't. And if their actions prevent survival,
they lie about it to themselves.
Post by slider
But the reality is, the universe doesn't care whether or not humans exist.
### - no more than your leg cares that your hand exists... but humans are
certainly 'part' of it (the universe) whatever 'it' is... (although i'm beginning to
stop thinking that humanity is the 'brain' (or some strange aspect of self-awareness
i mean) of the universe - we're just too dumb to be that lol (perhaps the dick? hahaha :))
If humanity is the brain of the universe, then the universe is brain dead.
:) Human beings do nothing but kill.

Actually the universe does not think, so therefore it can not care if human
beings kill or if they die. If human beings don't care, there is no one to
care. They will die.
Post by slider
Post by rskiwi
### - one only 'knows' things directly? (i.e. in the moment & during the
experience itself...) - imho everything else is only a form of intellectual chewing
of the cud (leading to an isolated world of regurgitated experiences? heh:)
which are perforce immediately blanked-out (swallowed & forgotten:) as/when
the very next 'experience' begins... (if/when it ever does, considering most people
opt for cud-chewing as being the only reality :)
That's why the aliens call human beings "foolish talkers".
### - how do you know this?
They said so. They think human beings are incredibly foolish.

Only a human beings would get angry and destroy something because they
wanted to own it and control it.
Post by slider
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
"Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts."
--Albert Einstein :)
Thanks! I enjoyed chatting with you, you have a good mind. :)
### - smile... it's still very naughty on-occasion tho' heh heh...
just trying to do the best i can under the circumstances...
The circumstances are human beings are well on the road to extinction and
will get their death wish.
### - does seem that humanity has that dis-ease of teenagers: self-harming, no?:)
Yes, they do. They're self-destructive and kill nearly everything they
touch.
Post by slider
Post by rskiwi
stay cool :)
I'm wondering what perspective you'll have after you're dead.
### - if there's anything at all of me left after i'm dead (something i rather doubt) then
i hope it just 'keeps-on' doing the best it can under the circumstances... what else! :)
and if there's nothing... then it doesn't really matter (smile :)
just be here now :)
All matter is recycled. But only matter, nothing else.
KittyKat
2004-09-19 02:09:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
rskiwi wrote...
Post by rskiwi
Accepting the fact that the Universe is in control of us, rather than human
beings being in control of the Universe is difficult for human beings to
accept. They have yet to acknowledge that and if they don't, then they
can't survive.
### - (sssssssssssh... they are asleep + dreaming of being the masters heh heh
(have to look after them really :)
There is no one looking out for human beings' or their survival.
### - exactly... therefore we have to (learn to) look after 'ourselves' :)
Human beings believe they don't have to take care of anything, that their
various gods will do that for them.
there you go then. All the NON BELIEVERS will be SAVED.
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
There's
extraterrestrial beings looking AT human beings as they spend all of their
time praying for survival after death. Human beings believe the only way to
survive is to die.
### - do you really thinks there's aliens? - i can't be so optimistic really, and
never seen one (or anything like it) except in dreams...but basically it's the only
hope humanity has... (some hope:)
Yes, extraterrestrials do exist, but they are no hope for humans at all.
They've never helped human beings nor have they hindered them. They just
watch wondering when human beings will realize that they alone are their
only route to survival. But humans still believe they can do what ever they
want and survive. But they can't. And if their actions prevent survival,
they lie about it to themselves.
Probably because they never SHOW themselves or PROVE that they actually
exist....except for those self proclaimed select few who have made the
claims to have seen and know them personally. Maybe they should occupy their
free time by minding their own business, stop all the anal probings etc. and
find another species to spy on.
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
But the reality is, the universe doesn't care whether or not humans exist.
### - no more than your leg cares that your hand exists... but humans are
certainly 'part' of it (the universe) whatever 'it' is... (although i'm beginning to
stop thinking that humanity is the 'brain' (or some strange aspect of self-awareness
i mean) of the universe - we're just too dumb to be that lol (perhaps the dick? hahaha :))
If humanity is the brain of the universe, then the universe is brain dead.
:) Human beings do nothing but kill.
Actually the universe does not think, so therefore it can not care if human
beings kill or if they die. If human beings don't care, there is no one to
care. They will die.
Post by slider
Post by rskiwi
### - one only 'knows' things directly? (i.e. in the moment & during the
experience itself...) - imho everything else is only a form of intellectual chewing
of the cud (leading to an isolated world of regurgitated experiences? heh:)
which are perforce immediately blanked-out (swallowed & forgotten:) as/when
the very next 'experience' begins... (if/when it ever does, considering most people
opt for cud-chewing as being the only reality :)
That's why the aliens call human beings "foolish talkers".
### - how do you know this?
They said so. They think human beings are incredibly foolish.
maybe if we all took up anal probings in the middle of the night.......they
might change their opinions????
Post by rskiwi
Only a human beings would get angry and destroy something because they
wanted to own it and control it.
Post by slider
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
"Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts."
--Albert Einstein :)
Thanks! I enjoyed chatting with you, you have a good mind. :)
### - smile... it's still very naughty on-occasion tho' heh heh...
just trying to do the best i can under the circumstances...
The circumstances are human beings are well on the road to extinction and
will get their death wish.
self-harming, no?:)
Yes, they do. They're self-destructive and kill nearly everything they
touch.
Post by slider
Post by rskiwi
stay cool :)
I'm wondering what perspective you'll have after you're dead.
### - if there's anything at all of me left after i'm dead (something i rather doubt) then
i hope it just 'keeps-on' doing the best it can under the circumstances... what else! :)
and if there's nothing... then it doesn't really matter (smile :)
just be here now :)
All matter is recycled. But only matter, nothing else.
wow, you made a friend!!!
rskiwi
2004-09-19 03:32:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by KittyKat
Probably because they never SHOW themselves or PROVE that they actually
exist....except for those self proclaimed select few who have made the
claims to have seen and know them personally.
Well, so the aliens did show themselves to several million people and every
government in the world.

Now what? Just because the aliens won't land in your back yard on demand
doesn't mean much, except they don't find it worth their while.
KittyKat
2004-09-19 04:03:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
Probably because they never SHOW themselves or PROVE that they actually
exist....except for those self proclaimed select few who have made the
claims to have seen and know them personally.
Well, so the aliens did show themselves to several million people and every
government in the world.
are you suggesting now that those governments are keeping 'secrets'??? I
have been to EUROPE and many of the countries you speak of, yet it would
appear that most people there are STILL as much in the dark about the source
of the UFO's or 'aliens' as in the US. I must have missed the earth
shattering newsflash along with millions of other people when their
governments decided to 'reveal' their information.
Post by rskiwi
Now what? Just because the aliens won't land in your back yard on demand
doesn't mean much, except they don't find it worth their while.
Since I have not had the opportunity or the priveledge to MEET any of those
so called 'aliens' I doubt very much if they even know who I am or aware of
my existance any more than I am certain of THEIRS. If you have the pleasure
of their aquintance then perhaps they took a poll at who would be the most
KOOKiest and you won hands down. ..................
from your posts they landed on your HEAD not your back yard.
rskiwi
2004-09-19 04:13:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
Probably because they never SHOW themselves or PROVE that they actually
exist....except for those self proclaimed select few who have made the
claims to have seen and know them personally.
Well, so the aliens did show themselves to several million people and every
government in the world.
are you suggesting now that those governments are keeping 'secrets'??? I
have been to EUROPE and many of the countries you speak of, yet it would
appear that most people there are STILL as much in the dark about the source
of the UFO's or 'aliens' as in the US. I must have missed the earth
shattering newsflash along with millions of other people when their
governments decided to 'reveal' their information.
You wouldn't know, if you're an American, they don't put that stuff on the
news, just war propaganda.
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Now what? Just because the aliens won't land in your back yard on demand
doesn't mean much, except they don't find it worth their while.
Since I have not had the opportunity or the priveledge to MEET any of those
so called 'aliens' I doubt very much if they even know who I am or aware of
my existance any more than I am certain of THEIRS.
That's a roger, I think you can safely assume the aliens have no interest in
you what so ever and in fact you'll never meet an alien. So what? They've
been around for millions of years if they wanted to visit you they would
have by now.
Post by KittyKat
If you have the pleasure
of their aquintance then perhaps they took a poll at who would be the most
KOOKiest and you won hands down. ..................
from your posts they landed on your HEAD not your back yard.
Well you're a good example of why aliens have no interest in you or human
society.
KittyKat
2004-09-19 04:26:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
Probably because they never SHOW themselves or PROVE that they actually
exist....except for those self proclaimed select few who have made the
claims to have seen and know them personally.
Well, so the aliens did show themselves to several million people and every
government in the world.
are you suggesting now that those governments are keeping 'secrets'??? I
have been to EUROPE and many of the countries you speak of, yet it would
appear that most people there are STILL as much in the dark about the source
of the UFO's or 'aliens' as in the US. I must have missed the earth
shattering newsflash along with millions of other people when their
governments decided to 'reveal' their information.
You wouldn't know, if you're an American, they don't put that stuff on the
news, just war propaganda.
I'm NOT an American nor do I LIVE in the US. I STILL missed the
newsflash.......
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Now what? Just because the aliens won't land in your back yard on demand
doesn't mean much, except they don't find it worth their while.
Since I have not had the opportunity or the priveledge to MEET any of those
so called 'aliens' I doubt very much if they even know who I am or aware of
my existance any more than I am certain of THEIRS.
That's a roger, I think you can safely assume the aliens have no interest in
you what so ever and in fact you'll never meet an alien. So what?
They've
been around for millions of years if they wanted to visit you they would
have by now.
thats good to know. Im not very fond of meeting strangers and no doubt
theyre 'strange' and it would appear not to selective in WHOM they associate
with.
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
If you have the pleasure
of their aquintance then perhaps they took a poll at who would be the most
KOOKiest and you won hands down. ..................
from your posts they landed on your HEAD not your back yard.
Well you're a good example of why aliens have no interest in you or human
society.
Thank you. I will take that as a compliment.
rskiwi
2004-09-19 04:34:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by KittyKat
I'm NOT an American nor do I LIVE in the US. I STILL missed the
newsflash.......
The Mexicans, French, Japanese and the Russians talk freely about it on
their media, they do not however in the British empire.
KittyKat
2004-09-19 04:52:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
I'm NOT an American nor do I LIVE in the US. I STILL missed the
newsflash.......
The Mexicans, French, Japanese and the Russians talk freely about it on
their media, they do not however in the British empire.
yes they do. In fact on the news a few years ago the BRITISH army saw a UFO
and it was not only on THEIR national television but broadcast worldwide.
AND if you are still fishing for information I do NOT live in Britain
either.
rskiwi
2004-09-19 04:54:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
I'm NOT an American nor do I LIVE in the US. I STILL missed the
newsflash.......
The Mexicans, French, Japanese and the Russians talk freely about it on
their media, they do not however in the British empire.
yes they do. In fact on the news a few years ago the BRITISH army saw a UFO
and it was not only on THEIR national television but broadcast worldwide.
It wasn't in the United States, that's a taboo subject.
Post by KittyKat
AND if you are still fishing for information I do NOT live in Britain
either.
I couldn't care less who you are. I'm not interested in aliens.
KittyKat
2004-09-19 05:14:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
I'm NOT an American nor do I LIVE in the US. I STILL missed the
newsflash.......
The Mexicans, French, Japanese and the Russians talk freely about it on
their media, they do not however in the British empire.
yes they do. In fact on the news a few years ago the BRITISH army saw a UFO
and it was not only on THEIR national television but broadcast worldwide.
It wasn't in the United States, that's a taboo subject.
hmm, I always thought CNN was from the US.....I could be mistaken. Are they
Russian???
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
AND if you are still fishing for information I do NOT live in Britain
either.
I couldn't care less who you are. I'm not interested in aliens.
hahaha. Of COURSE not. Why WOULD you. They don't exist.
rskiwi
2004-09-19 05:18:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by KittyKat
hmm, I always thought CNN was from the US.....
It wasn't on CNN here in the US.
KittyKat
2004-09-19 05:34:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
hmm, I always thought CNN was from the US.....
It wasn't on CNN here in the US.
oh...probably a 'different' CNN that you watched. My mistake.............
rskiwi
2004-09-19 06:22:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
hmm, I always thought CNN was from the US.....
It wasn't on CNN here in the US.
oh...probably a 'different' CNN that you watched. My mistake.............
I always knew our news here in the US was lies and propaganda, but I didn't
realize the rest of the world knew it until I met someone from Malaysia who
told me that they watched our news from the states here by satellite and
heard them tell lies about all sorts of stuff about what was happening in
their country.
KittyKat
2004-09-19 06:37:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
hmm, I always thought CNN was from the US.....
It wasn't on CNN here in the US.
oh...probably a 'different' CNN that you watched. My mistake.............
I always knew our news here in the US was lies and propaganda, but I didn't
realize the rest of the world knew it until I met someone from Malaysia who
told me that they watched our news from the states here by satellite and
heard them tell lies about all sorts of stuff about what was happening in
their country.
no one actually BELIEVES most of the news anyways. you have to read between
the lines......
rskiwi
2004-09-19 06:43:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
hmm, I always thought CNN was from the US.....
It wasn't on CNN here in the US.
oh...probably a 'different' CNN that you watched. My mistake.............
I always knew our news here in the US was lies and propaganda, but I didn't
realize the rest of the world knew it until I met someone from Malaysia who
told me that they watched our news from the states here by satellite and
heard them tell lies about all sorts of stuff about what was happening in
their country.
no one actually BELIEVES most of the news anyways. you have to read between
the lines......
Yep, and it's all bad news.

rskiwi
2004-09-19 05:19:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
I couldn't care less who you are. I'm not interested in aliens.
hahaha. Of COURSE not. Why WOULD you. They don't exist.
I just don't believe you, and there's nothing you can do to convince me.
Your actions belie your intent.
KittyKat
2004-09-19 05:41:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
I couldn't care less who you are. I'm not interested in aliens.
hahaha. Of COURSE not. Why WOULD you. They don't exist.
I just don't believe you, and there's nothing you can do to convince me.
Your actions belie your intent.
I don't NEED to convice YOU. I KNOW what I believe. That is all I need to
convince myself.
I am convinced they do not exist. Your conviction that they DO still does
not convince ME otherwise. Thats because I'm conviced (more so now than
previously) that they do not. And I don't NEED to convince you since you are
already CONVINCED they do. Inuendoes do not work in my case since I KNOW I
am not trying to CONVINCE you of anything.
rskiwi
2004-09-19 06:25:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
I couldn't care less who you are. I'm not interested in aliens.
hahaha. Of COURSE not. Why WOULD you. They don't exist.
I just don't believe you, and there's nothing you can do to convince me.
Your actions belie your intent.
I don't NEED to convice YOU. I KNOW what I believe. That is all I need to
convince myself.
I am convinced they do not exist. Your conviction that they DO still does
not convince ME otherwise. Thats because I'm conviced (more so now than
previously) that they do not. And I don't NEED to convince you since you are
already CONVINCED they do. Inuendoes do not work in my case since I KNOW I
am not trying to CONVINCE you of anything.
Then who are you trying to convince? 85% of the people in the USA already
accept and believe in Et presence and are convinced their own government are
liars.

The government isn't fooling anyone, so why they bother to post of AAV and
make it more obvious is a futile effort.

People just aren't that stupid not to believe in extraterrestrial presence,
the evidence is just over whelming.
rskiwi
2004-09-19 04:37:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by KittyKat
thats good to know. Im not very fond of meeting strangers and no doubt
theyre 'strange' and it would appear not to selective in WHOM they associate
with.
That's why George Bush is killing off everyone except fundamentalist bible
thumpers. If you're a wacko religion zealot, you've got it made -- the more
violent the better - they're more holy.
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
If you have the pleasure
of their aquintance then perhaps they took a poll at who would be the most
KOOKiest and you won hands down. ..................
from your posts they landed on your HEAD not your back yard.
Well you're a good example of why aliens have no interest in you or human
society.
Thank you. I will take that as a compliment.
You should, you're about to cease to exist as a species, which is the
ultimate compliment to advanced cultures in the Universe.
KittyKat
2004-09-19 04:56:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
thats good to know. Im not very fond of meeting strangers and no doubt
theyre 'strange' and it would appear not to selective in WHOM they associate
with.
That's why George Bush is killing off everyone except fundamentalist bible
thumpers. If you're a wacko religion zealot, you've got it made -- the more
violent the better - they're more holy.
I'm not any of the above. Sorry. Still fishing I see......
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
If you have the pleasure
of their aquintance then perhaps they took a poll at who would be the most
KOOKiest and you won hands down. ..................
from your posts they landed on your HEAD not your back yard.
Well you're a good example of why aliens have no interest in you or human
society.
Thank you. I will take that as a compliment.
You should, you're about to cease to exist as a species, which is the
ultimate compliment to advanced cultures in the Universe.
Just ME or does that include the whole of the human race....and even maybe
yourself????????
.........now back to the ORIGINAL question we are all still waiting
for.........Neil Armstrong.
I bet you thought I 'forgot'......wrong....as usual.
rskiwi
2004-09-19 04:59:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
thats good to know. Im not very fond of meeting strangers and no doubt
theyre 'strange' and it would appear not to selective in WHOM they associate
with.
That's why George Bush is killing off everyone except fundamentalist bible
thumpers. If you're a wacko religion zealot, you've got it made -- the more
violent the better - they're more holy.
I'm not any of the above. Sorry. Still fishing I see......
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
If you have the pleasure
of their aquintance then perhaps they took a poll at who would be the most
KOOKiest and you won hands down. ..................
from your posts they landed on your HEAD not your back yard.
Well you're a good example of why aliens have no interest in you or human
society.
Thank you. I will take that as a compliment.
You should, you're about to cease to exist as a species, which is the
ultimate compliment to advanced cultures in the Universe.
Just ME or does that include the whole of the human race....and even maybe
yourself????????
Everyone. me to -- you, George Bush, the Pope, everyone will be gone.
There's won't be any humans on earth.
Post by KittyKat
.........now back to the ORIGINAL question we are all still waiting
for.........Neil Armstrong.
I bet you thought I 'forgot'......wrong....as usual.
Not interested in that.
KittyKat
2004-09-19 05:20:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by rskiwi
snip<
Everyone. me to -- you, George Bush, the Pope, everyone will be gone.
There's won't be any humans on earth.
oh no...not the POPE! but from the looks of him he will be long gone before
the big event........
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
.........now back to the ORIGINAL question we are all still waiting
for.........Neil Armstrong.
I bet you thought I 'forgot'......wrong....as usual.
Not interested in that.
not interested in the original question or Neil Armstrong???
I suspect because there is nothing in the original claim to substantiate a
reply or provide a response let alone any 'proof' of any such occurance as
stated earlier in you posts.
rskiwi
2004-09-19 05:21:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by KittyKat
not interested in the original question or Neil Armstrong???
Nope.
KittyKat
2004-09-19 05:44:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by KittyKat
not interested in the original question or Neil Armstrong???
Nope.
which is it????
maybe I should have highlighted the OR..................
There you go folks.........she cannot respond for the requested PROOF as she
is not 'interested'.
evasive tacktics - 51
Bullshit -201
rskiwi
2004-09-19 06:26:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by KittyKat
Post by KittyKat
not interested in the original question or Neil Armstrong???
Nope.
which is it????
maybe I should have highlighted the OR..................
There you go folks.........she cannot respond for the requested PROOF as she
is not 'interested'.
evasive tacktics - 51
Bullshit -201
Nope, you already said your mind was made up not to believe in
extraterrestrial existence so why should anyone bother giving you evidence?
_cloud
2004-09-18 23:59:29 UTC
Permalink
rskiwi
Post by rskiwi
I'm wondering what perspective you'll have after you're dead.
i dont, and i=m glad for it, lol...
KittyKat
2004-09-19 01:19:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
rskiwi wrote...
Post by rskiwi
How does it do that?!?
### - how? what? why? when? - where's the 'acceptance' in that!
i.e. perhaps we'll *never* know about those things... the truly hard part is accepting
it?
Accepting the fact that the Universe is in control of us, rather than human
beings being in control of the Universe is difficult for human beings to
accept. They have yet to acknowledge that and if they don't, then they
can't survive.
or for that matter the same can be said for extra terrestials.....
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
### - (sssssssssssh... they are asleep + dreaming of being the masters heh heh
(have to look after them really :)
There is no one looking out for human beings' or their survival. There's
extraterrestrial beings looking AT human beings as they spend all of their
time praying for survival after death. Human beings believe the only way to
survive is to die.
But the reality is, the universe doesn't care whether or not humans exist.
or for that matter 'extraterrestials'.................
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
Post by rskiwi
### - imho we can 'never' see through the eyes of the universe my friend... but we CAN
see
Post by rskiwi
through our own which should be more than enough to wonder at it all... plus have the
courage to NOT know, nor understand :)
is there a problem with anyone wanting to know and understand??? If the
capability to at least be curious and try to find answers is given to a
species........should they not at least TRY to use that capability???It is
more lack of courage to hide one's head in the sand and pretend something
they don't understand is not worth understanding.
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
Absolutely, I agree. It's perfectly okay to say "I don't know", but equally
fascinating to say "Let's try to find out!".
### - one only 'knows' things directly? (i.e. in the moment & during the
experience itself...) - imho everything else is only a form of
intellectual chewing
of the cud (leading to an isolated world of regurgitated experiences? heh:)
which are perforce immediately blanked-out (swallowed & forgotten:) as/when
the very next 'experience' begins... (if/when it ever does, considering most people
opt for cud-chewing as being the only reality :)
That's why the aliens call human beings "foolish talkers".
Post by slider
Post by rskiwi
"Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts."
--Albert Einstein :)
Thanks! I enjoyed chatting with you, you have a good mind. :)
### - smile... it's still very naughty on-occasion tho' heh heh...
just trying to do the best i can under the circumstances...
The circumstances are human beings are well on the road to extinction and
will get their death wish.
from what one sees of past history of this planet, it seems that human
beings are simply just one of the many past lifeforms, probably no different
from the ones that came before or will come after....................
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
stay cool :)
I'm wondering what perspective you'll have after you're dead.
probably that they are courageous for NOT wanting to know or find
out.........
rskiwi
2004-09-19 01:49:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
rskiwi wrote...
Post by rskiwi
How does it do that?!?
### - how? what? why? when? - where's the 'acceptance' in that!
i.e. perhaps we'll *never* know about those things... the truly hard part is accepting
it?
Accepting the fact that the Universe is in control of us, rather than human
beings being in control of the Universe is difficult for human beings to
accept. They have yet to acknowledge that and if they don't, then they
can't survive.
or for that matter the same can be said for extra terrestials.....
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
### - (sssssssssssh... they are asleep + dreaming of being the masters heh heh
(have to look after them really :)
There is no one looking out for human beings' or their survival. There's
extraterrestrial beings looking AT human beings as they spend all of their
time praying for survival after death. Human beings believe the only way to
survive is to die.
But the reality is, the universe doesn't care whether or not humans exist.
or for that matter 'extraterrestials'.................
Extraterrestrials (specifically the greys) realized if they wanted life
after death that they would have to provide their own, so they did.

They can live forever. They don't worry about death or much actually, they
have no wants or worries -- so they spend their time being curious.
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
Post by rskiwi
### - imho we can 'never' see through the eyes of the universe my friend... but we CAN
see
Post by rskiwi
through our own which should be more than enough to wonder at it all... plus have the
courage to NOT know, nor understand :)
is there a problem with anyone wanting to know and understand???
Yes, there is a problem. Here on earth, some people are fearful if they
learned or understood something that it would disrupt their lopsided world
economy and they wouldn't be able to survive without having control of all
the world's wealth. So they inadvertently chose to remain ignorant and with
hold knowledge so nothing changes, and they don't lose their status.
Post by KittyKat
If the
capability to at least be curious and try to find answers is given to a
species........should they not at least TRY to use that capability???
Yes, you would think so given that is what intelligent people do. Curiosity
is the hallmark of intelligence and how we learn.
Post by KittyKat
It is
more lack of courage to hide one's head in the sand and pretend something
they don't understand is not worth understanding.
Human beings are taught from the time they're born that they're special
because they're the most 'intelligent' animals on earth, so in order to
maintain their 'specialness' they must deny that which challenges their
standing as being 'special'. And of course, there's a handful of people who
are greedy enough to want to maintain status of being the elite special,
because they're making a lot of money being 'more special' than the ordinary
'special' people. Ego. Human beings don't like to admit they don't know
something so they make up stuff to fill the void, and long as what they
invent supports their image of themselves as being special.
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
Absolutely, I agree. It's perfectly okay to say "I don't know", but equally
fascinating to say "Let's try to find out!".
### - one only 'knows' things directly? (i.e. in the moment & during the
experience itself...) - imho everything else is only a form of intellectual chewing
of the cud (leading to an isolated world of regurgitated experiences? heh:)
which are perforce immediately blanked-out (swallowed & forgotten:) as/when
the very next 'experience' begins... (if/when it ever does, considering most people
opt for cud-chewing as being the only reality :)
That's why the aliens call human beings "foolish talkers".
Post by slider
Post by rskiwi
"Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts."
--Albert Einstein :)
Thanks! I enjoyed chatting with you, you have a good mind. :)
### - smile... it's still very naughty on-occasion tho' heh heh...
just trying to do the best i can under the circumstances...
The circumstances are human beings are well on the road to extinction and
will get their death wish.
from what one sees of past history of this planet, it seems that human
beings are simply just one of the many past lifeforms, probably no different
from the ones that came before or will come after....................
That's right, human beings are not special. They can die and cease to exist
without anyone in the Universe ever knowing they existed or caring.
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
stay cool :)
I'm wondering what perspective you'll have after you're dead.
probably that they are courageous for NOT wanting to know or find
out.........
Not knowing something can kill ya, and in fact it is. But human beings on
this planet have had plenty of warning from their own scientists, so they
can't claim they didn't know, they can only claim they chose to ignore it
and fight against that which they don't want to hear -- human beings must
change or they will die out on this planet. We're becoming extinct right
along with the other plants and animals on earth -- and human beings CAUSED
IT.
KittyKat
2004-09-19 02:48:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
rskiwi wrote...
<snip>
Post by rskiwi
Extraterrestrials (specifically the greys) realized if they wanted life
after death that they would have to provide their own, so they did.
I KNEW it! They're ZOMBIES!
Post by rskiwi
They can live forever. They don't worry about death or much actually, they
have no wants or worries -- so they spend their time being curious.
yes, yes, we know. they make NEW bodies for themselves etc. Sounds to me
that they are rather lazy, useless couch potatoes on a galactic(lol)level.
Their main passtime besides remote view-ing, seems to be midninght
abductions, anal probing and leaving useless stuff on our planet. Thats what
happens with too much free time on their hands or tentacles etc. Sitting
around doing nothing it seems is more than just a human passtime.
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
Post by slider
### - imho we can 'never' see through the eyes of the universe my
friend... but we CAN
see
Post by slider
through our own which should be more than enough to wonder at it all... plus have the
courage to NOT know, nor understand :)
is there a problem with anyone wanting to know and understand???
Yes, there is a problem. Here on earth, some people are fearful if they
learned or understood something that it would disrupt their lopsided world
economy and they wouldn't be able to survive without having control of all
the world's wealth. So they inadvertently chose to remain ignorant and with
hold knowledge so nothing changes, and they don't lose their status.
great, then we should all just sit around 'watching' and 'being
curious'????As you suggested we are all DOOMED so there IS no point in doing
anything.........just sit and observe.
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
If the
capability to at least be curious and try to find answers is given to a
species........should they not at least TRY to use that capability???
Yes, you would think so given that is what intelligent people do.
Curiosity
is the hallmark of intelligence and how we learn.
but what USE is it being CURIOUS if you just sit around and OBSERVE.
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
It is
more lack of courage to hide one's head in the sand and pretend something
they don't understand is not worth understanding.
Human beings are taught from the time they're born that they're special
because they're the most 'intelligent' animals on earth, so in order to
maintain their 'specialness' they must deny that which challenges their
standing as being 'special'. And of course, there's a handful of people who
are greedy enough to want to maintain status of being the elite special,
because they're making a lot of money being 'more special' than the ordinary
'special' people. Ego. Human beings don't like to admit they don't know
something so they make up stuff to fill the void, and long as what they
invent supports their image of themselves as being special.
a perfect self description. Particularly the 'make up stuff' part.
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
Absolutely, I agree. It's perfectly okay to say "I don't know", but equally
fascinating to say "Let's try to find out!".
### - one only 'knows' things directly? (i.e. in the moment & during the
experience itself...) - imho everything else is only a form of intellectual chewing
of the cud (leading to an isolated world of regurgitated experiences? heh:)
which are perforce immediately blanked-out (swallowed & forgotten:) as/when
the very next 'experience' begins... (if/when it ever does, considering most people
opt for cud-chewing as being the only reality :)
is that why you are repeating everything over and over??? You don't want to
swallow & forget???
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
That's why the aliens call human beings "foolish talkers".
or 'foolish posters'????
you, you have a good mind. :)
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
The circumstances are human beings are well on the road to extinction and
will get their death wish.
from what one sees of past history of this planet, it seems that human
beings are simply just one of the many past lifeforms, probably no different
from the ones that came before or will come after....................
That's right, human beings are not special. They can die and cease to exist
without anyone in the Universe ever knowing they existed or caring.
except maybe your aliens. THEN they will have even more free time on their
hands with nothing to observe...................
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
I'm wondering what perspective you'll have after you're dead.
probably that they are courageous for NOT wanting to know or find
out.........
Not knowing something can kill ya, and in fact it is. But human beings on
this planet have had plenty of warning from their own scientists, so they
can't claim they didn't know, they can only claim they chose to ignore it
and fight against that which they don't want to hear -- human beings must
change or they will die out on this planet. We're becoming extinct right
along with the other plants and animals on earth -- and human beings CAUSED
IT.
OMG. First you admire the 'aliens' for spending their entire existance
remanufacturing their new bodies so they can live forever and just sit on
their thumbs and observe everything, YET you expect HUMANITY to change or DO
something about THEIR situations??? What ever for???Being BORED for eternity
sitting around watching everything (when not anal probing for excitement)is
not much of a future...........I would rather have an occassional BALONEY
sandwich than be bored with eating HAM for eternity.
oh well....thats the end of chapter 21 or whichever species was the previous
one.


NEXT please...................!
rskiwi
2004-09-19 02:58:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
rskiwi wrote...
<snip>
Post by rskiwi
Extraterrestrials (specifically the greys) realized if they wanted life
after death that they would have to provide their own, so they did.
I KNEW it! They're ZOMBIES!
Nah, the zombies are in the USA, drugged, fed bullshit on the television and
conned into believing they have the highest standard of living in the world
-- they have all these conveniences, but 1/3 of them don't have medical
insurance or a retirement income, 95% of the aged can't afford their
medication, and 7/8 of the school children have no parents at home when they
get home from school and 1/3 of them have no medical insurance.

And George Bush just spent 19 trillion dollars, and all of that went to the
military and defense contractors for a bogus war to find no weapons of mass
destruction in Iraq, but instead got Afghanistan's & Iraqs drug & oil for
Shell oil company, and the zombies paid for it, and will continue to pay for
200 years and earn $5.65 while they're paying back the 19 trillion which
went into the hands of about 10 people.
<snip>
KittyKat
2004-09-19 03:49:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
rskiwi wrote...
<snip>
Post by rskiwi
Extraterrestrials (specifically the greys) realized if they wanted life
after death that they would have to provide their own, so they did.
I KNEW it! They're ZOMBIES!
Nah, the zombies are in the USA, drugged, fed bullshit on the television and
conned into believing they have the highest standard of living in the world
-- they have all these conveniences, but 1/3 of them don't have medical
insurance or a retirement income, 95% of the aged can't afford their
medication, and 7/8 of the school children have no parents at home when they
get home from school and 1/3 of them have no medical insurance.
And George Bush just spent 19 trillion dollars, and all of that went to the
military and defense contractors for a bogus war to find no weapons of mass
destruction in Iraq, but instead got Afghanistan's & Iraqs drug & oil for
Shell oil company, and the zombies paid for it, and will continue to pay for
200 years and earn $5.65 while they're paying back the 19 trillion which
went into the hands of about 10 people.
<snip>
hate to disillusion you but the 'oil' is not flowing as freely as you seem
to think in Iraq.
Methinks all these sour grapes about government coverups, misspending etc.
has more to do with your OWN personal situation than about the issues
themselves. If you won the lottery tommorow I will start taking bets that
YOU will not give your money to all those deserving people you speak of.
From what I have seen so far all this talk about government coverups about
aliens etc. is nothing more than a personal vendetta against a government
who perhaps revealed too much about YOUR own private secrets and nothing
whatsoever to do with any 'aliens'.
Talk is cheap. Get off your duff and from behind the computer and start
making changes unless you want to win a popularity contest with the
crossposts to the above sites. Ranting about government coverups about
aliens and extraterrestials with suggestive and implied proof is not the
same as actual proof. Evading supplying the proof or answering direct
questions with political rhetoric is the same as a coverup. Seems to me that
when your 'aliens' reengineered your genes they missed the space between
your ears as you lack logic.
Prove to us that there IS a space craft at GROOM and that you actually have
contact with the 'aliens' and perhaps you will be taken seriously.
rskiwi
2004-09-19 03:56:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
rskiwi wrote...
<snip>
Post by rskiwi
Extraterrestrials (specifically the greys) realized if they wanted life
after death that they would have to provide their own, so they did.
I KNEW it! They're ZOMBIES!
Nah, the zombies are in the USA, drugged, fed bullshit on the television and
conned into believing they have the highest standard of living in the world
-- they have all these conveniences, but 1/3 of them don't have medical
insurance or a retirement income, 95% of the aged can't afford their
medication, and 7/8 of the school children have no parents at home when they
get home from school and 1/3 of them have no medical insurance.
And George Bush just spent 19 trillion dollars, and all of that went to the
military and defense contractors for a bogus war to find no weapons of mass
destruction in Iraq, but instead got Afghanistan's & Iraqs drug & oil for
Shell oil company, and the zombies paid for it, and will continue to pay for
200 years and earn $5.65 while they're paying back the 19 trillion which
went into the hands of about 10 people.
<snip>
hate to disillusion you but the 'oil' is not flowing as freely as you seem
to think in Iraq.
Methinks all these sour grapes about government coverups, misspending etc.
has more to do with your OWN personal situation than about the issues
themselves. If you won the lottery tommorow I will start taking bets that
YOU will not give your money to all those deserving people you speak of.
From what I have seen so far all this talk about government coverups about
aliens etc. is nothing more than a personal vendetta against a government
who perhaps revealed too much about YOUR own private secrets and nothing
whatsoever to do with any 'aliens'.
Talk is cheap. Get off your duff and from behind the computer and start
making changes unless you want to win a popularity contest with the
crossposts to the above sites. Ranting about government coverups about
aliens and extraterrestials with suggestive and implied proof is not the
same as actual proof. Evading supplying the proof or answering direct
questions with political rhetoric is the same as a coverup. Seems to me that
when your 'aliens' reengineered your genes they missed the space between
your ears as you lack logic.
Prove to us that there IS a space craft at GROOM and that you actually have
contact with the 'aliens' and perhaps you will be taken seriously.
Well I passed up a chance to be a millionaire by selling drugs on the street
and not pay taxes in order to post to usenet. I'd say that's pretty
altruistic of me.

And besides, this isn't about aliens, but human extinction.

A lot of people would find comfort in knowing everything the did in their
life had some sort of meaning, if it was only that life goes on after
they're gone and that their children will have good lives, but that's not
the real case.

Humanity is on a one lane road to disaster for themselves.

If you're under 40 you'll live long enough to see the total world economy
collapse in utter chaos. It won't be pleasant. Better stock up on ammo and
guns now.
KittyKat
2004-09-19 04:18:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
rskiwi wrote...
<snip>
Post by rskiwi
Extraterrestrials (specifically the greys) realized if they wanted life
after death that they would have to provide their own, so they did.
I KNEW it! They're ZOMBIES!
Nah, the zombies are in the USA, drugged, fed bullshit on the television and
conned into believing they have the highest standard of living in the world
-- they have all these conveniences, but 1/3 of them don't have medical
insurance or a retirement income, 95% of the aged can't afford their
medication, and 7/8 of the school children have no parents at home when they
get home from school and 1/3 of them have no medical insurance.
And George Bush just spent 19 trillion dollars, and all of that went to the
military and defense contractors for a bogus war to find no weapons of mass
destruction in Iraq, but instead got Afghanistan's & Iraqs drug & oil for
Shell oil company, and the zombies paid for it, and will continue to pay for
200 years and earn $5.65 while they're paying back the 19 trillion which
went into the hands of about 10 people.
<snip>
hate to disillusion you but the 'oil' is not flowing as freely as you seem
to think in Iraq.
Methinks all these sour grapes about government coverups, misspending etc.
has more to do with your OWN personal situation than about the issues
themselves. If you won the lottery tommorow I will start taking bets that
YOU will not give your money to all those deserving people you speak of.
From what I have seen so far all this talk about government coverups about
aliens etc. is nothing more than a personal vendetta against a government
who perhaps revealed too much about YOUR own private secrets and nothing
whatsoever to do with any 'aliens'.
Talk is cheap. Get off your duff and from behind the computer and start
making changes unless you want to win a popularity contest with the
crossposts to the above sites. Ranting about government coverups about
aliens and extraterrestials with suggestive and implied proof is not the
same as actual proof. Evading supplying the proof or answering direct
questions with political rhetoric is the same as a coverup. Seems to me that
when your 'aliens' reengineered your genes they missed the space between
your ears as you lack logic.
Prove to us that there IS a space craft at GROOM and that you actually have
contact with the 'aliens' and perhaps you will be taken seriously.
Well I passed up a chance to be a millionaire by selling drugs on the street
and not pay taxes in order to post to usenet. I'd say that's pretty
altruistic of me.
And besides, this isn't about aliens, but human extinction.
oh dear....I think you are then posting in the wrong ng. it distinctly says
alt.aline.visitors..........
try the 'human extinction' site..........
Post by rskiwi
A lot of people would find comfort in knowing everything the did in their
life had some sort of meaning, if it was only that life goes on after
they're gone and that their children will have good lives, but that's not
the real case.
Humanity is on a one lane road to disaster for themselves.
If you're under 40 you'll live long enough to see the total world economy
collapse in utter chaos. It won't be pleasant. Better stock up on ammo and
guns now.
rskiwi
2004-09-19 04:26:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by KittyKat
oh dear....I think you are then posting in the wrong ng. it distinctly says
alt.alien.visitors..........
try the 'human extinction' site..........
That's why the aliens 'contacted' some people, because human beings are
going extinct. They're making some sort of study about extinction and why
most sentient species self-annihilate.
KittyKat
2004-09-19 04:44:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
oh dear....I think you are then posting in the wrong ng. it distinctly says
alt.alien.visitors..........
try the 'human extinction' site..........
That's why the aliens 'contacted' some people, because human beings are
going extinct. They're making some sort of study about extinction and why
most sentient species self-annihilate.
yeah sure. So now THEY are commiting suicide??? Isn't that supposedly more
in humanity's league??? The ONLY thing you convinced me of so far is that
they are obviously not very selective in their choice of 'contact'.
rskiwi
2004-09-19 04:49:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by KittyKat
Post by rskiwi
Post by KittyKat
oh dear....I think you are then posting in the wrong ng. it distinctly says
alt.alien.visitors..........
try the 'human extinction' site..........
That's why the aliens 'contacted' some people, because human beings are
going extinct. They're making some sort of study about extinction and why
most sentient species self-annihilate.
yeah sure.
That's exactly what they said.
Post by KittyKat
So now THEY are commiting suicide???
No, they can't commit suicide, they manufacture their bodies.
Post by KittyKat
Isn't that supposedly more
in humanity's league??? The ONLY thing you convinced me of so far is that
they are obviously not very selective in their choice of 'contact'.
They've observed a wide spectrum of people, all kinds.
Monkey FourSevenZeroOne
2004-09-17 01:44:50 UTC
Permalink
"I do not intend", he said,"to make any comment on the views of those who
advise *capitulation* - the name they give to the most shameful submission to
enslavement; in my opinion they ought not to be regarded as citizens or
allowed in the assembly. I will concern myself only with those who advocate a
sortie.You all approve their suggestion, as showing that we have not
forgotten our traditional courage. But it is not courage, it is weakness, to
be able to endure a short period of privation. It is easier to find men who
will voluntarily risk death than men who will bear suffering patiently. Even
so, I would support their proposal-so much that I do respect their
authority-if it involved no loss beyond that of our own lives. But in making
our decision we must consider all our countrymen, whom we have called to our
aid. If Eighty thousand of us are killed in one battle, what heart do you
suppose our relatives and kinsmen will have when they are compelled to fight
almost over our corpses? Do not leave them to continue the struggle alone
when for your sakes they have counted their own danger as nothing, and do
not by folly and rashness, or lack of resolution, ruin all Gaul and subject
it to perpetual servitude. Because thay have not come on the appointed day,
do you doubt their loyalty or constancy to our cause? What? Do you think the
Romans are working day after day on those outer fortifications to amuse
themselves?"
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
rskiwi wrote...
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
"Chaos was the law of nature; order was the dream of man." --Henry Brook Adams
That's backwards.
Chaos is the dream of man, order is the law of nature.
### - that sounds more like something Isaac Newton would have written (wrong! :)
Nah, more like Einstein. There is order in the Universe, not chaos. :)
The same physics principles which created us, also created the Universe.
And it's the same principles all over the entire Universe!
Universal 'Law' of order, not chaos!
### - the universe is not a ticking clock, there's no law...
that's just mankind imagining there are/wanting them to exist and
then seeing/finding pretty patterns in the clouds and saying i told you so :)
Human imagination or desire can not prevent galaxies from colliding or
construct new galaxies from the old ones, but the Universe can!
How does it do that?!?
Post by slider
i.e. only humans think/perceive in terms of there being laws...
Human think that they can break the laws and will not get caught if no one
knows.
But the Universe 'knows'.
EVERYTHING YOU KNOW IS WRONG!!!

Everything You Know Is Wrong! (1974)
http://www.doctechnical.com/fst/science/sci-eyk.htm
LP Columbia KC33141
WRITTEN AND PRODUCED BY THE FIRESIGN THEATRE
PERFORMED BY PHILIP AUSTIN, PETER BERGMAN, DAVID OSSMAN & PHILIP PROCTOR
Recorded in Hellmouth, California Summer '74 and at "The Burbank Studios"
Engineered by Andy MacDonald, assisted by Frank Jones
Designed by Brian Hagiwara Rod Dyer, Inc. and T.F.T.
Photos by Tyler Thornton
Art Direction: Ron Coro
Orchestral Music (ASCAP) licensed through "Music Industries"
Synthetape by Western Ralph
And "Thanks!" to Jim Winfree, The Nudists (Edgar, Marie and Fred)
and Goldie at the bank.
Copyright (c) 1974 4 or 5 Krazy Guys Publishing
http://www.doctechnical.com/fst/science/sci-eyk.htm

"Give Me Immortality Or Give Me Death"
http://www.firesigntheatre.com/

Clone ME Dr. memory!

<snipped>
... Some many
<> millenniums hence... Intelligent beings consider the fate of the
<> Universe.
<>
<> " Copyright (c) Ray Kurzweil, 1999. Extracted from The Age Of
<> Spiritual Machines by Ray Kurzweil, published by Orion Business
<> Books

Ray Kurzweil --
Kurzweil Technologies, Inc. (KTI)
http://www.kurzweiltech.com/

()()()()()

e s c h a t o l o g y
Terence McKenna
http://www.abrupt.org/LOGOS/tm980728.html
Live at Wetlands Preserve, NYC
July 28, 1998

if we accept superstrings, we could use this model-###
in God's vast cosmic creation/imagination there are infinite reference
points with which we can act and be acted upon instantly through vast
distances, however every possible frame of reference for humanity is but
one small piece of God's(the universe/multiverse) spectrum, which also
says the part we call physical creation has folded up in it pieces of
the history of whatever creative thought or event brought it all about

Do We Inherit Scaffolding?? Morphogenetic Resonant Fields??
Is God one sick twisted puppy suffering from a multiple personality
disorder and exhibiting an obsessive penchant for fireworks displays??!!

()()()()()

[From: <http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/science/prat-boh.htm> ]

In Bohm's view, all the separate objects, entities,
structures, and events in the visible or explicate
world around us are relatively autonomous, stable,
and temporary "subtotalities" derived from a deeper,
implicate order of unbroken wholeness. Bohm gives
the analogy of a flowing stream:

On this stream, one may see an ever-changing pattern of vortices,
ripples, waves, splashes, etc., which evidently have no independent
existence as such. Rather, they are abstracted from the flowing
movement, arising and vanishing in the total process of the flow.
Such transitory subsistence as may be possessed by these abstracted
forms implies only a relative independence or autonomy of behaviour,
rather than absolutely independent existence as ultimate substances.

(David Bohm, Wholeness and the Implicate Order, Routledge &
Kegan Paul, London, Boston, 1980, p. 48.)

We must learn to view everything as part of
"Undivided Wholeness in Flowing Movement." (Ibid., p. 11.)

Another metaphor Bohm uses to illustrate the implicate order
is that of the hologram...

()()()()()

If you can do that, the beauty of your construction would then be to
visualize all of the P-ADIC NUMBERS at once. The mind can picture
Reals at once and geometrically, and that is perhaps the greatest
beauty of the Reals, to be able to picture them geometrically, but
with the p-adics, no-one can picture them geometrically. Karl Heuer,
about 5 years ago said the p-adics are more like a tree. But I find
that unsatisfactory. The best I can come up with so far as to picturing
the P-ADICS is that of nested balls, or balls inside of balls. Smaller
balls inside of bigger balls. But that is only a hunch and perhaps
wrong.
Do the p-adics have the greatest mathematical content of
any Infinite Integers?

Notes on P-Adic Numbers and Ultrametrics
TOPOLOGICAL GEOMETRODYNAMICS AND P-ADIC NUMBER
http://www.physics.helsinki.fi/~matpitka/padtgd.html
Irony and the occurrence of ironies is perhaps the very best
indication of a God, a superintelligence far above the intelligence of
humanity. I remember reading philosophy articles by philosophers and
logicians giving their arguments for the existence of a God, none of
which are convincing. However, the existence of ironies and
coincidences are too common and too frequent. A case in point is
this thread.

"Use the Floss, Luke!" -- Skywalker's dentist

[From: http://www.enfolded.net/holographic_order.htm ]

In 1980 Bohm published Wholelness and the Implicate Order in
which he developed his concept of a holomovent, a holographic
model of the universe which explains, in part, the wholeness
and nonlocal nature of the universe.

One of Bohm's most starting assertions is that the
tangible reality of our everday lives is really a
kind of illusion, like a holographic image.
Underlying it is a deeper order of existence, a vast
and more primary level of reality that gives birth
to all objects and appearances of our physical world
in much the same way tha a piece of holographic film
gives birth to a [holograhic image]. [46]

Bohm's holomovement is enfolded in a hierachy of implicate and
explicate orders; these orders unfold into lower-orders,
culminating in the explicate order, our everyday tangible reality.

()()()()()

[See also, Karl Pribram's interview:
http://www.intuition.org/txt/pribram.htm

"I'm a wild hearted son
I'm coming down like a rolling stone
wild hearted son
hey mama the world didn't want me to run"
--The Cult

:"I do not intend", he said,"to make any comment on the views of those who
advise *capitulation* - the name they give to the most shameful submission to
enslavement; in my opinion they ought not to be regarded as citizens or
allowed in the assembly. I will concern myself only with those who advocate a
sortie.You all approve their suggestion, as showing that we have not
forgotten our traditional courage. But it is not courage, it is weakness, to
be able to endure a short period of privation. It is easier to find men who
will voluntarily risk death than men who will bear suffering patiently. Even
so, I would support their proposal-so much that I do respect their
authority-if it involved no loss beyond that of our own lives. But in making
our decision we must consider all our countrymen, whom we have called to our
aid. If Eighty thousand of us are killed in one battle, what heart do you
suppose our relatives and kinsmen will have when they are compelled to fight
almost over our corpses? Do not leave them to continue the struggle alone
when for your sakes they have counted their own danger as nothing, and do
not by folly and rashness, or lack of resolution, ruin all Gaul and subject
it to perpetual servitude. Because thay have not come on the appointed day,
do you doubt their loyalty or constancy to our cause? What? Do you think the
Romans are working day after day on those outer fortifications to amuse
themselves?"

"...Despite All My Rage
I am Still Just A Rat
In A Cage..." --Smashing Pumpkins

"As I got what I deserved
kept you waiting there too long my
love
all that time without a word
didn't know you'd think that I'd forget
or I'd regret
the special love I had for you
my baby blue"
Badfinger


"Hey Hey! We're The Monkees!
People say We Monkey Around!
But, We're too busy Singin'!
to put Anybody D O W N !!!"
--The Monkees
rskiwi
2004-09-17 02:27:32 UTC
Permalink
On 16 Sep 2004 18:44:50 -0700, ***@yahoo.com (Monkey
FourSevenZeroOne) wrote:

Enter, the Intelligentsia!

The Marching Morons is the title of a short story by CM Kornbluth, published
in Galaxy Magazine in 1951. A Google search will find info about CM, plus a
number of sites and blogs using his famous title.

The original short story was an acidic tale of the future. After thousands
of years of the great unwashed slaving to produce food, construction and
comfort for the elite, the tables had turned due to simple biology.

While those of lesser intelligence continued to reproduce great numbers, the
elite restrained the quantity of their offspring. The result was an
increasing number of truly stupid people while those with enough brains to
figure things out decreased. As a result, these few smart people had to work
feverishly and constantly to devise methods to keep the greater number of
clods from hurting themselves. While stupid, they could get very angry when
annoyed.

For example, the intellectuals designed cars that let out a great roar and
belched fire while the speedometer quickly rose to 120 miles an hour. But in
reality, the automobiles rarely would go faster than 40 because the general
populace was simply too stupid to handle any faster speed. But if they
simply thought they were going fast, it was OK.

I may not have the details down correctly, but the idea was that all
products and services needed to be severely dumbed down because the
increasing number of truly stupid people required it.

To find out how this problem was resolved, you have to find a copy of the
short story.

This brings to mind the present-day "Darwin awards" from elsewhere on the
net. If you have not read them, do a search and be amazed

http://www.acpress.com/moronexplained.htm
Post by Monkey FourSevenZeroOne
"I do not intend", he said,"to make any comment on the views of those who
advise *capitulation* - the name they give to the most shameful submission to
enslavement; in my opinion they ought not to be regarded as citizens or
allowed in the assembly. I will concern myself only with those who advocate a
sortie.You all approve their suggestion, as showing that we have not
forgotten our traditional courage. But it is not courage, it is weakness, to
be able to endure a short period of privation. It is easier to find men who
will voluntarily risk death than men who will bear suffering patiently. Even
so, I would support their proposal-so much that I do respect their
authority-if it involved no loss beyond that of our own lives. But in making
our decision we must consider all our countrymen, whom we have called to our
aid. If Eighty thousand of us are killed in one battle, what heart do you
suppose our relatives and kinsmen will have when they are compelled to fight
almost over our corpses? Do not leave them to continue the struggle alone
when for your sakes they have counted their own danger as nothing, and do
not by folly and rashness, or lack of resolution, ruin all Gaul and subject
it to perpetual servitude. Because thay have not come on the appointed day,
do you doubt their loyalty or constancy to our cause? What? Do you think the
Romans are working day after day on those outer fortifications to amuse
themselves?"
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
rskiwi wrote...
Post by rskiwi
Post by slider
"Chaos was the law of nature; order was the dream of man." --Henry Brook Adams
That's backwards.
Chaos is the dream of man, order is the law of nature.
### - that sounds more like something Isaac Newton would have written (wrong! :)
Nah, more like Einstein. There is order in the Universe, not chaos. :)
The same physics principles which created us, also created the Universe.
And it's the same principles all over the entire Universe!
Universal 'Law' of order, not chaos!
### - the universe is not a ticking clock, there's no law...
that's just mankind imagining there are/wanting them to exist and
then seeing/finding pretty patterns in the clouds and saying i told you so :)
Human imagination or desire can not prevent galaxies from colliding or
construct new galaxies from the old ones, but the Universe can!
How does it do that?!?
Post by slider
i.e. only humans think/perceive in terms of there being laws...
Human think that they can break the laws and will not get caught if no one
knows.
But the Universe 'knows'.
EVERYTHING YOU KNOW IS WRONG!!!
Everything You Know Is Wrong! (1974)
http://www.doctechnical.com/fst/science/sci-eyk.htm
LP Columbia KC33141
WRITTEN AND PRODUCED BY THE FIRESIGN THEATRE
PERFORMED BY PHILIP AUSTIN, PETER BERGMAN, DAVID OSSMAN & PHILIP PROCTOR
Recorded in Hellmouth, California Summer '74 and at "The Burbank Studios"
Engineered by Andy MacDonald, assisted by Frank Jones
Designed by Brian Hagiwara Rod Dyer, Inc. and T.F.T.
Photos by Tyler Thornton
Art Direction: Ron Coro
Orchestral Music (ASCAP) licensed through "Music Industries"
Synthetape by Western Ralph
And "Thanks!" to Jim Winfree, The Nudists (Edgar, Marie and Fred)
and Goldie at the bank.
Copyright (c) 1974 4 or 5 Krazy Guys Publishing
http://www.doctechnical.com/fst/science/sci-eyk.htm
"Give Me Immortality Or Give Me Death"
http://www.firesigntheatre.com/
Clone ME Dr. memory!
<snipped>
... Some many
<> millenniums hence... Intelligent beings consider the fate of the
<> Universe.
<>
<> " Copyright (c) Ray Kurzweil, 1999. Extracted from The Age Of
<> Spiritual Machines by Ray Kurzweil, published by Orion Business
<> Books
Ray Kurzweil --
Kurzweil Technologies, Inc. (KTI)
http://www.kurzweiltech.com/
()()()()()
e s c h a t o l o g y
Terence McKenna
http://www.abrupt.org/LOGOS/tm980728.html
Live at Wetlands Preserve, NYC
July 28, 1998
if we accept superstrings, we could use this model-###
in God's vast cosmic creation/imagination there are infinite reference
points with which we can act and be acted upon instantly through vast
distances, however every possible frame of reference for humanity is but
one small piece of God's(the universe/multiverse) spectrum, which also
says the part we call physical creation has folded up in it pieces of
the history of whatever creative thought or event brought it all about
Do We Inherit Scaffolding?? Morphogenetic Resonant Fields??
Is God one sick twisted puppy suffering from a multiple personality
disorder and exhibiting an obsessive penchant for fireworks displays??!!
()()()()()
[From: <http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/science/prat-boh.htm> ]
In Bohm's view, all the separate objects, entities,
structures, and events in the visible or explicate
world around us are relatively autonomous, stable,
and temporary "subtotalities" derived from a deeper,
implicate order of unbroken wholeness. Bohm gives
On this stream, one may see an ever-changing pattern of vortices,
ripples, waves, splashes, etc., which evidently have no independent
existence as such. Rather, they are abstracted from the flowing
movement, arising and vanishing in the total process of the flow.
Such transitory subsistence as may be possessed by these abstracted
forms implies only a relative independence or autonomy of behaviour,
rather than absolutely independent existence as ultimate substances.
(David Bohm, Wholeness and the Implicate Order, Routledge &
Kegan Paul, London, Boston, 1980, p. 48.)
We must learn to view everything as part of
"Undivided Wholeness in Flowing Movement." (Ibid., p. 11.)
Another metaphor Bohm uses to illustrate the implicate order
is that of the hologram...
()()()()()
If you can do that, the beauty of your construction would then be to
visualize all of the P-ADIC NUMBERS at once. The mind can picture
Reals at once and geometrically, and that is perhaps the greatest
beauty of the Reals, to be able to picture them geometrically, but
with the p-adics, no-one can picture them geometrically. Karl Heuer,
about 5 years ago said the p-adics are more like a tree. But I find
that unsatisfactory. The best I can come up with so far as to picturing
the P-ADICS is that of nested balls, or balls inside of balls. Smaller
balls inside of bigger balls. But that is only a hunch and perhaps
wrong.
Do the p-adics have the greatest mathematical content of
any Infinite Integers?
Notes on P-Adic Numbers and Ultrametrics
TOPOLOGICAL GEOMETRODYNAMICS AND P-ADIC NUMBER
http://www.physics.helsinki.fi/~matpitka/padtgd.html
Irony and the occurrence of ironies is perhaps the very best
indication of a God, a superintelligence far above the intelligence of
humanity. I remember reading philosophy articles by philosophers and
logicians giving their arguments for the existence of a God, none of
which are convincing. However, the existence of ironies and
coincidences are too common and too frequent. A case in point is
this thread.
"Use the Floss, Luke!" -- Skywalker's dentist
[From: http://www.enfolded.net/holographic_order.htm ]
In 1980 Bohm published Wholelness and the Implicate Order in
which he developed his concept of a holomovent, a holographic
model of the universe which explains, in part, the wholeness
and nonlocal nature of the universe.
One of Bohm's most starting assertions is that the
tangible reality of our everday lives is really a
kind of illusion, like a holographic image.
Underlying it is a deeper order of existence, a vast
and more primary level of reality that gives birth
to all objects and appearances of our physical world
in much the same way tha a piece of holographic film
gives birth to a [holograhic image]. [46]
Bohm's holomovement is enfolded in a hierachy of implicate and
explicate orders; these orders unfold into lower-orders,
culminating in the explicate order, our everyday tangible reality.
()()()()()
http://www.intuition.org/txt/pribram.htm
"I'm a wild hearted son
I'm coming down like a rolling stone
wild hearted son
hey mama the world didn't want me to run"
--The Cult
:"I do not intend", he said,"to make any comment on the views of those who
advise *capitulation* - the name they give to the most shameful submission to
enslavement; in my opinion they ought not to be regarded as citizens or
allowed in the assembly. I will concern myself only with those who advocate a
sortie.You all approve their suggestion, as showing that we have not
forgotten our traditional courage. But it is not courage, it is weakness, to
be able to endure a short period of privation. It is easier to find men who
will voluntarily risk death than men who will bear suffering patiently. Even
so, I would support their proposal-so much that I do respect their
authority-if it involved no loss beyond that of our own lives. But in making
our decision we must consider all our countrymen, whom we have called to our
aid. If Eighty thousand of us are killed in one battle, what heart do you
suppose our relatives and kinsmen will have when they are compelled to fight
almost over our corpses? Do not leave them to continue the struggle alone
when for your sakes they have counted their own danger as nothing, and do
not by folly and rashness, or lack of resolution, ruin all Gaul and subject
it to perpetual servitude. Because thay have not come on the appointed day,
do you doubt their loyalty or constancy to our cause? What? Do you think the
Romans are working day after day on those outer fortifications to amuse
themselves?"
"...Despite All My Rage
I am Still Just A Rat
In A Cage..." --Smashing Pumpkins
"As I got what I deserved
kept you waiting there too long my
love
all that time without a word
didn't know you'd think that I'd forget
or I'd regret
the special love I had for you
my baby blue"
Badfinger
"Hey Hey! We're The Monkees!
People say We Monkey Around!
But, We're too busy Singin'!
to put Anybody D O W N !!!"
--The Monkees
RoboTrax
2004-09-16 11:46:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by slider
RoboTrax wrote...
Post by slider
i.e. there's no way to become wealthy except at other people's expense & suffering...
as in... ''pyramid-selling' & 'chain letters' for example (outlawed in most countries)
(not trying to start a fight here by the way)
imho one should never hate the river... or the bush :) :)
I wouln,t fight you for the word/world
I gave up on lightmach/vacumn pressure 23
long ago, I just maintain an outpost/bouy for
navigation purposes,
Plus I dig buttered popcorn and good movies.
### - just saw a good one called 'The Butterfly Effect' about time travel
which, if you haven't seen it already, you'll probably like too...
"Chaos was the law of nature; order was the dream of man." --Henry Brook Adams
Think its on pay per view 3.95 to own for 24 hours. I,ll check it out.
small tortoiseshell
2004-09-13 19:30:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by RoboTrax
Post by rbb
"Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen" >
Post by Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen
No one likes us - I don't know why
Hmm.. United Bushes?
Hatred produces toxic blood chemistry and disease.
As an investor in the pharmaceutical industry I have bias on this subject.
So I shall refrain from encouraging this discussion out of concern for
the health of my already bloated and corpulent portfolio .
Does anyone have any idea how I could make up for my greed and excess
wealth.
Maybe a foundtion to give grant to sickly europeans and or other third
world areas.
you must be in good healt these days
RoboTrax
2004-09-15 16:23:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by small tortoiseshell
Post by RoboTrax
Post by rbb
"Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen" >
Post by Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen
No one likes us - I don't know why
Hmm.. United Bushes?
Hatred produces toxic blood chemistry and disease.
As an investor in the pharmaceutical industry I have bias on this subject.
So I shall refrain from encouraging this discussion out of concern for
the health of my already bloated and corpulent portfolio .
Does anyone have any idea how I could make up for my greed and excess
wealth.
Maybe a foundtion to give grant to sickly europeans and or other third
world areas.
you must be in good healt these days
Yes relaxing letting others do the hard work.
small tortoiseshell
2004-09-16 22:21:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by RoboTrax
Post by small tortoiseshell
Post by RoboTrax
Post by rbb
"Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen" >
Post by Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen
No one likes us - I don't know why
Hmm.. United Bushes?
Hatred produces toxic blood chemistry and disease.
As an investor in the pharmaceutical industry I have bias on this subject.
So I shall refrain from encouraging this discussion out of concern for
the health of my already bloated and corpulent portfolio .
Does anyone have any idea how I could make up for my greed and excess
wealth.
Maybe a foundtion to give grant to sickly europeans and or other third
world areas.
you must be in good healt these days
Yes relaxing letting others do the hard work.
, egyptians? :)
RoboTrax
2004-09-18 08:18:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by small tortoiseshell
Post by RoboTrax
Post by small tortoiseshell
Post by RoboTrax
Post by rbb
"Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen" >
Post by Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen
No one likes us - I don't know why
Hmm.. United Bushes?
Hatred produces toxic blood chemistry and disease.
As an investor in the pharmaceutical industry I have bias on this subject.
So I shall refrain from encouraging this discussion out of concern for
the health of my already bloated and corpulent portfolio .
Does anyone have any idea how I could make up for my greed and excess
wealth.
Maybe a foundtion to give grant to sickly europeans and or other third
world areas.
you must be in good healt these days
Yes relaxing letting others do the hard work.
, egyptians? :)
Shushhhhhh keep it under your double w-hat
rbb
2004-09-15 23:34:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by RoboTrax
Post by rbb
"Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen" >
Post by Koyaanisqatsi Fahrvergnugen
No one likes us - I don't know why
Hmm.. United Bushes?
Hatred produces toxic blood chemistry and disease.
As an investor in the pharmaceutical industry I have bias on this subject.
So I shall refrain from encouraging this discussion out of concern for
the health of my already bloated and corpulent portfolio .
One doesn't have to hate someone to feel that someone isn't suited for a
job. :)
Post by RoboTrax
Does anyone have any idea how I could make up for my greed and excess
wealth.
Maybe a foundtion to give grant to sickly europeans and or other third
world areas.
Support your own kind.
Poor artists everywhere.
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