Discussion:
Islam fastest growing religion is a myth...more like a lie.
(too old to reply)
Shogun
2007-06-26 02:43:00 UTC
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Encyclopedia of Islam Myths:
Islam is not the fastest growing religion in the world. Islam is the
dominant religion of the third world where the birth rate is high. In
these same Countries, Muslims are killed if they convert to
Christianity.

Introduction:

The Islamic religion has a long history of myth making. The claim they
are the fastest growing religion in the world is pure myth. We have
collected the latest statistics from David A. Barrett’s huge two volume,
"World Christian Encyclopedia", the 2001 AD edition. In case you haven’t
heard of this work, it is the world standard for religious statistics.

Muslim's claim that their growth rate is 235 percent and 47 percent for
Christianity. This statistic came from the Readers Digest Almanac and
Yearbook 1983, and represents 235 percent increase over 50 years.
Muslims always leave off the 50 year fact to make it appear they are
going 235% every year. A simple review of the readers Digest study shows
that the growth rate of Islam vs. Christianity is directly linked to the
birth rate in Third World countries where Islam dominates and not actual
conversions to each religion. Christianity has always been larger than
Islam. These statistics from Readers Digest are over 20 years old.
Further, we do not consider readers digest to be an authority on such
matters. Why will Muslims not quote real authoritative statistics from
certified research groups who show Islam is not the fastest growing
religion in 3/4’s of the worlds countries.

1. There are over a billion Muslims in the world today, including 3
to 5 million in the U.S., making it the second most populous religion on
earth after Christianity. According to some estimates, Islam is the
fastest-growing religion in the world. (The Joy of Sects, Peter
Occhigrosso, 1996, p394-397)
2. Islam is the religion which has developed from the preaching and
life of Muhammad, a citizen of the city of Mecca in Arabia, who early in
the seventh century of the Christian Era appeared as a preacher of
monotheism to his own people and founded a religious movement which
today counts perhaps as many as 300,000,000 followers, mostly in the
heat belt from Indonesia to Morocco. (Islam: Muhammad and His Religion,
Arthur Jeffery, 1958, p xi-xiv)

Before we examine the true facts from informed statisticians, we want to
make it clear that we are not claiming Christianity is the fastest
growing religion on earth. Such a claim is a needless as it is
irresponsible. Having said this, in terms of sheer numbers, there are
more Christians being added to planet earth, than any other religion on
earth, including Islam. (see Table 1-2 for proof.)

Relative size and growth of Islam to Christianity:

1. From Table 1-1, there are 1.9 Billion Christians making up 31% of
the world population, whereas there are only 1.2 Billion Muslims making
up only 20% of the population. It seems that Allah's little trick by
making Judas appear like Jesus, so Jesus could escape crucifixion and
Judas was crucified in his place, kind of backfired, since 31% of the
world's population never learned Allah played a trick and really
believes that Jesus not only died, but was raised from the dead! This
should be most troubling for Muslims to think that "Allah's deception"
(Qur'an 4:156) actually became the world's largest religion!
2. From Table 1-1, the relative growth rates of Islam to Christianity
are compiled from data that ended the very year before the great
terrorist attacks of 911 against the world trade towers in 2001 and the
train bomb in Spain in 2004. Statisticians are predicting that Islamic
motivated terrorism will last the decade and bring Islam into great
disrepute with the world population. This will have a very strong
dampening effect on the long term predicted Islamic growth rates for the
years 2025 and 2050.
3. From Table 1-1 you can see that the world growth rate of Muslims
is 2.13, and for Christians it is 1.36. A closer look reveals, however
that the birth rate of Muslims world wide, is literally double that of
Christians. This is due to the fact that Muslims are largest in the
developing world where dirt floors, thatched roofs and large families
are common. When you the actual conversion rate, where men chose their
religion, rather then are born into it, you can see that Christians are
converting, on a percentage basis, almost twice as many as Muslims
(1.7:1). This means that individual Christians are out converting
Muslims almost two to one! What this means, is that as third world
Muslim controlled countries gain the advantages of education and
technology found in the Western world, their birth rate will drop off to
match that of the West, but Christians will still continue to out
convert them at a rate of 1.7:1.




Total adherents


New from conversion


Number of adherents to make one new convert:

Muslims


1,188,242,789


865,558


1,372

Christians


1,999,563,838


2,501,396


799
4. From Table 1-1 you can see that while Muslims claim they are the
fastest growing religion in the world (2.13), the statistics say that
Baha'is are growing at a faster rate (2.28) and faster still are
Zoroastrians (2.65).
5. From Table 1-1 regarding world distribution, you can see that
Islam is only in 204 of the worlds 238 countries. Christianity, on the
other hand is in all 238 countries of the world. Christianity has a 100%
penetration rate world wide!
6. From Table 1-2, you can see that presently every 24 hours, the
world population of Christians increases by 69,000, whereas there are
only 68,000 Muslims. The only reason Muslims are anywhere near
Christians is because of higher birth rates in the parts of the world
where Muslims are largest. The vast majority of the 69,000 Christians
will be educated, whereas the majority of the 68,000 Muslims will be
illiterate peasants without clean drinking water.
7. From Table 1-4, you can see the relative growth rates of
Christianity vs. Islam broken down into 6 continents. In each of the 6
continents, Christianity enjoys a wider distribution of countries.
8. From Table 1-4 the continent "Africa" we observe that Christianity
slightly larger but is growing at a much faster rate than Islam.
Although the birth rates are about identical, individual Christians are
making twice as many converts as Muslims. In the African continent,
Christians are both the largest and fastest growing in relation to
Islam.
9. From Table 1-4 the continent "Asia" we observe that although Islam
is 25% and Christianity is only 10% of the population, again
Christianity is growing at a must fast rate. Even the Jews are growing
at a faster rate (2.99) than the Muslims in Asia! While birth rates for
Muslims are higher than Christians, individual Christians are 13 times
more effective at making new converts than Muslims. In the Asian
continent, Christians are growing faster than Muslims.
10. From Table 1-4 the continent "Europe" we observe that while
Muslims are growing faster than Christians, Buddhists claim the prize
for the fastest growing religion at a rate of 1.39. Muslims make up only
5% of the population in Europe and most of the Muslim growth in Europe
is from immigration. Although 77% of Europeans are Christians,
Buddhists, not Muslims, are the fastest growing religion in the
continent of Europe.
11. From Table 1-4 the continent "Latin America" that we observe that
while Muslims (1.99) are growing faster than Christians (1.63), they
make up only 1/3 of 1% (.3%) of the population, whereas Christians are
92 % of the population. The down trend in Christianity conversion is
mainly defects from Catholics to non-religious. It must be troubling for
Muslims to know that although they are growing faster than Christians,
Baha’is are growing much faster than Muslims at a rate of 2.87! In the
Latin American continent, Christians make up 93% of the population.
Although tiny Islam is fastest growing faster than Christianity, it is
the Baha’is, who take the prize for fastest growing the Latin America.
12. From Table 1-4 the continent "North America" we observe that while
Muslims are growing faster than Christians, they make up only 4% of the
population, whereas 84% are Christians. Most of the Muslim growth in
North America is from immigration. Canada alone immigrates more Muslims
apart from the USA, to account for almost all the growth in all of North
America every year! It sure must be a hollow boast for Muslims to claim
they are the fastest growing religion in North America, when it is
because of the kindness and generosity of Christians who let them
immigrate, often fleeing the persecution between hostile Muslim sects.
There are still 50% more Jews in North America than Muslims in 2004.
Muslims lie when they tell you they are the fastest growing (1.56)
religion in North America. From Table 1-4, we can see that they are no
better than 5th place in growth behind: Atheists (3.51), Hindus (3.13),
Sikhs (2.81), Buddhists (2.75), Baha’is (2.25). We tire of the lies and
myth making of Islamic spin doctors.
13. Muslims claim they are the fastest growing religion in Canada,
based upon the National Census: 1971: 33,000; 1981: 98,000; 1991:
253,000. But from Table 1-4 shows that there were less than 11,000
Muslims in Canada in 1900! Sure on a purely statistical basis, dividing
the small initial numbers by those added by immigration, they come out
on top, but that’s because of the kindness of the Christians who let
them into their country! It is a myth that Muslims are converting any
measurable numbers of non-Muslims. The most common reason somone
converts to Islam is through marriage. These same individuals would have
converted to be Jews or Christians, if that was their new spouses
religion.
14. From Table 1-4 the continent "Oceania" we observe that Christians
represent 83% of the population and Muslims are a miniscule 1%.Yet the
facts are that in Oceania, Muslims are indeed growing at a fast rate
than Christians at 3.04. But the fastest growing religion is "new-
religionists" at a staggering rate of 9.02, followed by Buddhists at
5.19, then Sikhs at 3.55, then Zoroastrians at 3.18. Muslims are no
better than the 5th fastest growing religion in Oceania!

Conclusion:

1. There are more new Christians added to the world population than
any other religion on earth every day. This data makes the entire
discussion about "rates of growth" irrelevant. The fact is today, that
Christianity is the fastest growing religion on this most critical
basis. This may change, but today, in 2004 AD, Christians take the prize
for being the fastest growing religion.
2. On none of the 6 continents are Muslims the fastest growing
religion.
3. That Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world is pure
myth at best and at worst a deliberate deception of solid statistical
facts.

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-myths-fastest-growing.htm
Mavisbeacon
2007-06-26 08:51:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shogun
Islam is not the fastest growing religion in the world.
For once I tend to agree with you. And you actually provided sources. Pity
you didnt provide a link to each of them. Nor did you seem to either read
the sources or verify them for yourself. Nevertheless they are probably
correct. But to be ethically correct you should check each of them out. If
you can't find the source yu should find another that covers the claim.

But the claim is moot anyway isn't it? I mean so what if Islam IS the
fastest growing religion in the world? so what if it ISNT? At present it is
the SECOND largest religion. so what? Muslims may way outnumber Christians
in the next 50 years. So what? I don't see anything relevant in that. do
you? I mean it isnt like democrat voters outnumbering Republican ones is it?
I don't mean by such a small amount that the courts award the Presidency to
Bush even though he got less votes. I mean the fact that the Presidency and
Congress will all be in Democrat hands. That is significant to some degree.
But on another level so what? In terms of military affairs I would wonder if
a Democrat Administration will have big changes.
Post by Shogun
Islam is the
dominant religion of the third world where the birth rate is high.
What this bit is getting at isn't necessarily true. I mean child martality
is also higher there and it is more likely that new Muslims die as well
isn't it?
Post by Shogun
In
these same Countries, Muslims are killed if they convert to
Christianity.
Not in all developing countries! In fact this horrific practice is quite
rare. as rare as a WACO or Solar Temple incident in the West maybe?
This is another cut and paste isnt it?
Post by Shogun
The Islamic religion has a long history of myth making.
Yes true. So has the Christian religion. So what?
[snip]
Post by Shogun
A simple review of the readers Digest study shows
that the growth rate of Islam vs. Christianity is directly linked to the
birth rate in Third World countries where Islam dominates and not actual
conversions to each religion.
Christianity has always been larger than
Islam.
Wel this is fairly obvious isn't it? Mind you maybe when Islam took over
India they outnumbered Christians . But again so what?
Post by Shogun
Why will Muslims not quote real authoritative statistics from
certified research groups who show Islam is not the fastest growing
religion in 3/4's of the worlds countries.
Probably because Islam isnt significant in 3/4 of countries. But again so
what? Islam is significant in many very high population countries. But let
us say China allowed religion. then I suppose whoever got 2/3 of China to
convert would be the biggest. But again so what?
Post by Shogun
1. There are over a billion Muslims in the world today, including 3
to 5 million in the U.S., making it the second most populous religion on
earth after Christianity. According to some estimates, Islam is the
fastest-growing religion in the world. (The Joy of Sects, Peter
Occhigrosso, 1996, p394-397)
This is a source. very good. You are learning. But it is someone else's
work. Cutting and pasting is a lazy way to make a case. Have you checked it
out? I bet not! where can you get it for instance? Like "reports" of WMD and
"claims of certainty of links with Al Queda" you really should check things
out. Also you should show you understand the source by using it to support
your case.
Post by Shogun
2. Islam is the religion which has developed from the preaching and
life of Muhammad, a citizen of the city of Mecca in Arabia, who early in
the seventh century of the Christian Era appeared as a preacher of
monotheism to his own people and founded a religious movement which
today counts perhaps as many as 300,000,000 followers, mostly in the
heat belt from Indonesia to Morocco. (Islam: Muhammad and His Religion,
Arthur Jeffery, 1958, p xi-xiv)
Excellent - two sources now. But again Ill bet you didnt check this one out
either did you? I mean it could turn out that Jeffery is now a leading light
in the Anti Bush movement (which has nothing to do with this issue at hand
but knowing your bigoted stances and penchant for personal attack I think
that might would really disturb you if someone pointed such a thing out).

Here are a load of sources (including yours) for you to check out:
http://www.medievalchurch.org.uk/islam.php
Note Jeffery is from 50 years ago and is difficult to locate and verify?
Also he seems to have written mainly pamphlets but I might be corrected on
this.

Here is a better list.http://www.mideastweb.org/biblioislam.htm note the
ISBN and web references and Arabic writers?

Arthur Jeffery ([[18 October 1892 in Melbourne]-2 August 1959 in South
Milford, Nova Scotia Canada ) was a Protestant Australian professor of
Semitic languages fist at the School of Oriental Studies in Cairo, and from
1938 until his death jointly at Columbia University and Union Theological
Seminary in New York City. He is the author of extensive historical studies
of Middle Eastern manuscripts.

His most important works include Materials for the history of the text of
the Qur'an: the old codices and The Foreign Vocabulary of the Qur'an, which
traces the origins of 275 foreign (non-Arabic) words found in the Qur'an.

Some of Jeffery's studies are included in The Origins of The Koran: Classic
Essays on Islam's Holy Book, edited by Ibn Warraq.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Jeffery

I am sure if you researched Columbia University you could find a copy.

[snip - more evidence for the above source of who is the fastest]

so what? If there were 2 people in WACO and 200 a year later they grew 100
fold in one year! so what?
Post by Shogun
4. From Table 1-1 you can see that while Muslims claim they are the
fastest growing religion in the world (2.13), the statistics say that
Baha'is are growing at a faster rate (2.28) and faster still are
Zoroastrians (2.65).
Yes indeed , but from a much smaller base!
Post by Shogun
5. From Table 1-1 regarding world distribution, you can see that
Islam is only in 204 of the worlds 238 countries. Christianity, on the
other hand is in all 238 countries of the world. Christianity has a 100%
penetration rate world wide!
good for them! So what? So what if there are more Christians or more
Muslims?
Post by Shogun
6. From Table 1-2, you can see that presently every 24 hours, the
world population of Christians increases by 69,000, whereas there are
only 68,000 Muslims. The only reason Muslims are anywhere near
Christians is because of higher birth rates in the parts of the world
where Muslims are largest. The vast majority of the 69,000 Christians
will be educated, whereas the majority of the 68,000 Muslims will be
illiterate peasants without clean drinking water.
I made this point already! But as it happens Christians were illiterate when
most in Arabic cultures not alone could read but the average Arab had books
in almost every home. Again so what? Would you prefer the poor to be Muslim
or Christian?
Post by Shogun
[snip]
14. From Table 1-4 the continent "Oceania" we observe that Christians
represent 83% of the population and Muslims are a miniscule 1%.Yet the
facts are that in Oceania, Muslims are indeed growing at a fast rate
than Christians at 3.04. But the fastest growing religion is "new-
religionists" at a staggering rate of 9.02, followed by Buddhists at
5.19, then Sikhs at 3.55, then Zoroastrians at 3.18. Muslims are no
better than the 5th fastest growing religion in Oceania!
1. There are more new Christians added to the world population than
any other religion on earth every day. This data makes the entire
discussion about "rates of growth" irrelevant. The fact is today, that
Christianity is the fastest growing religion on this most critical
basis. This may change, but today, in 2004 AD, Christians take the prize
for being the fastest growing religion.
So what? It sems this is all because people are afraid of ther being more
Muslims in the World than Christains? There are not but so what if there
are?
Post by Shogun
2. On none of the 6 continents are Muslims the fastest growing
religion.
But if there are only a million zoroastrians of course they will be the
"fastest growing". they wont in any way ever me the majority religion.
Post by Shogun
3. That Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world is pure
myth at best and at worst a deliberate deception of solid statistical
facts.
Yes but it may well be the majority religion in the world in time to come.
so what? do you think that in democracies that the majority will then vote
for Islamic fundamentalist states? It isnt all like the Christian right in
the Us or the Clerical State of Saudi or Iran you know.
Post by Shogun
http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-myths-fastest-growing.htm
Shogun
2007-06-26 14:34:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mavisbeacon
Post by Shogun
Islam is not the fastest growing religion in the world.
For once I tend to agree with you.
That is because I am always right, and you were always wrong, and you are
possibly beginning to wake up.
Merlin
2007-06-26 15:50:03 UTC
Permalink
This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.
Shogun
2007-06-26 17:23:44 UTC
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This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.
Mavisbeacon
2007-06-27 08:42:03 UTC
Permalink
[snip]
It may take a life time or two to
Post by Shogun
educate morons like MoronBeacon, but what the hell, I have the time.
When you cant deal with the argument you attack the person eh?
Clearly you cut and pasted you diatribe but when faced with a cogient
argument showing up your lack of research and praising your attempt on
listing at lease one source (all be it one you haven't actually researched
yourself and of whicy you show no comprehension ) you can't actually deal
with it.
Shogun
2007-06-27 14:41:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mavisbeacon
[snip]
It may take a life time or two to
Post by Shogun
educate morons like MoronBeacon, but what the hell, I have the time.
When you cant deal with the argument you attack the person eh?
Clearly you cut and pasted you diatribe but when faced with a cogient
argument showing up your lack of research and praising your attempt on
listing at lease one source (all be it one you haven't actually
researched yourself and of whicy you show no comprehension ) you can't
actually deal with it.
It appears it will take longer than expected to redeem you. I have the
time.

Mavisbeacon
2007-06-27 08:38:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Merlin
Post by Shogun
Post by Mavisbeacon
Post by Shogun
Islam is not the fastest growing religion in the world.
For once I tend to agree with you.
That is because I am always right, and you were always wrong, and you are
possibly beginning to wake up.
The arrogant fool Be-a-con is still trolling I see. You're perfectly
correct in your description of the loser.
*He* claims your numbers are wrong. How many times have you seen this
troll post "YOU made the claim. It's up to YOU to prove it."
Actually that isnt a troll. Look up "burden of Proof"
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#burden
There may be three problems here. First, the arguer claims priority, but can
he back up that claim? Second, he is impatient with ambiguity, and wants a
final answer right away. And third, "absence of evidence is not evidence of
absence."

Or "shifting the burden"?
Try looking up "ad hominem" and "two wrongs make a right" as well
Post by Merlin
Of course, like all trolls like him, his rules don't apply to HIS
posts.
Of course they apply to MY posts! Care to show me where I made a claim I
didn't back up? then applying the rule I will wither withdraw the claim or
provide evidence for it.

Of course I don't expect you can show that sionce I don't come here spouting
personal attack and making claims I can't back up do I? Unlike the likes of
you who claim WMD in Iraq and links with Al queda and when challenged can
only pull up tired old "assurances" from people from years ago. People who
haden't any evidence but kept telling us they had it! so if they had it
where is it? How come withing two weeks of invading and occupying Iraq we
diodn't see WMD or see Al queda people being charged for training in Iraq?
Post by Merlin
Great job at showing the asshole for what he truly is; nothing but a
net troll.
Ad hominem isnt argument.


[snip]
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