Discussion:
The American people should try to know the history of North Korea - it has a legitimate reason for self-defense and might have a compelling reason to bluster in the face of a history of threat and devastation from our military
(too old to reply)
lo yeeOn
2017-08-13 19:14:20 UTC
Permalink
Don't say they are behaving badly. Ask: "How the U.S. government has
been behaving?" Professor Bruce Cumings may help with his article
below.

"Americans once carpet-bombed North Korea. It's time to remember that
past" By Bruce Cumings

In May 2007, Cumings was the first recipient of the Kim Dae Jung
Academic Award for Outstanding Achievements and Scholarly
Contributions to Democracy, Human Rights and Peace granted by
South Korea. The award is named in honor of 2000 Nobel Peace Prize
winner and former President of South Korea Kim Dae Jung. The award
recognizes Cumings for his "outstanding scholarship, and engaged
public activity regarding human rights and democratization during
the decades of dictatorship in Korea, and after the dictatorship
ended in 1987."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/13/america-carpet-bombed-north-korea-remember-that-past

The US Air Force subjected North Koreans to three years of `rain and
ruin'. It was a living nightmare - one that still haunts the country
to this day

As they always do on the anniversary of the armistice, North Koreans
celebrated their "victory" in the Korean War on July 27. A few days
later President Donald J Trump remarked that if the North Koreans make
any more threats, they "will be met with fire and fury and frankly
power, the likes of which the world has never seen".

No American president has uttered words like this since Harry Truman
warned the Japanese, between Hiroshima and Nagasaki, either to
surrender or face "a rain of ruin from the air, the likes of which has
never been seen on this earth". Trump's nuclear bluster, made
off-the-cuff between golf rounds, was widely condemned, but a few days
later he doubled down on it.

As a White House staffer told the New York Times, the president
"believes he has a better feel for Mr Kim [Jong Un] than his advisors
do. He thinks of Mr Kim as someone pushing people around, and Mr
Trump thinks he needs to show that he cannot be pushed."

. . .

We are not just a superpower, Gorka went on, "we are now a
hyper-power. Nobody in the world, especially not North Korea, comes
close to challenging our military capabilities." This has been a
truism since the Soviet Union collapsed, but it doesn't explain how
the US has failed to win four of the five major wars it has fought
since 1945. One of those wars was Korea, where rough peasant armies,
North Korean and Chinese, fought the US to a standstill.

It was 64 years ago that North Koreans emerged from this war into a
living nightmare, after three years of "rain and ruin" by the US Air
Force. Pyongyang had been razed to the ground, with the Air Force
stating in official documents that the North's cities suffered greater
damage than German and Japanese cities firebombed during World War II.

Just as Japan scholar Richard Minear termed Truman's atomic attacks
"exterminationist", the great French writer and filmmaker Chris Marker
wrote after a visit to the North in 1957, "Extermination crossed this
land". It was an indelible experience still drilled into the heads of
every North Korean.

On my first visit to Pyongyang in 1981, a guide quickly brought up the
bombing and said it had killed several of his family members. Wall
posters depicted a wizened old woman in the midst of the bombing,
declaring "American imperialists - wolves".

The day after Trump's bluster, the DPRK government stated: "The US
once waged a tragic war that plunged this land into a sea of blood and
fire, and has been leaving no stone unturned to obliterate the DPRK's
ideology and system century after century."

There are 25 million human beings living in North Korea. They bleed
like we do, they live and die like we do, they love their kin like we
do. Trump's callous and cavalier threat was perhaps the most
irresponsible thing he has said since becoming president (which is
really saying something), but most Americans will not know this
because they know nothing about the carpet-bombing of North Korea.

What about the 50 million South Koreans, whose elders also suffered
through this war? "Trump doesn't seem to understand what an alliance
is, and doesn't seem to consider his ally when he says those things,"
Lee Byong-chul, a senior fellow at an institute in Seoul told the New
York Times."

"No American president has mentioned a military option so easily, so
offhandedly as he has." But here Trump has a precedent: Bill Clinton
also didn't bother to consult South Korean president Kim Young Sam
when drawing up plans for a preemptive strike in June 1994."

The next few weeks are critical to this deepening crisis, with annual
"Ulchi-Freedom Guardian" war games set to start up on August 21,
involving tens of thousands of American and South Korean troops.

North Korean generals have been preparing for moments like this for
decades, gaming out war scenarios during several crises going back to
January 1968 when they seized the US spy ship Pueblo and held the crew
for 11 months.

Thus the North's statements in the current crisis (unlike Trump's)
have a concrete, predictable nature: lots of bluster and bombast
combined with quite specific plans, namely four medium-range missiles
to be launched into waters near Guam on August 15th, if Kim Jong Un
gives the go ahead.

Pyongyang always pursues tit-for-tat strategies: the US lifts B1-B
nuclear-capable bombers from Guam for flyovers of South Korea - a
constant not just under Trump but also during Obama's tenure - and the
North chooses a scenario that will call attention to the nuclear
blackmail that the US has pursued going back to the Korean War, and
particularly during the decades from 1958 to 1990, when the US
stationed hundreds of nukes in South Korea with standard plans to use
them in the early stages of a North Korean invasion. Pyongyang also
likes to choose dates that have historical resonance: August 15 is the
anniversary of Korea's liberation from Japanese colonialism in 1945.

Upon the news of his wife's death, Shakespeare's Macbeth said, "Out,
out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player that
struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more. It
is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury." He famously
added, "Signifying nothing". Trump signified this: yet another
American venture in extermination.

Bruce Cumings teaches at the University of Chicago and is the author
of The Korean War: A History

From Wikipedia:

Bruce Cumings (born September 5, 1943) is an American historian of
East Asia, professor, lecturer and author. He is the Gustavus F. and
Ann M. Swift Distinguished Service Professor in History, and former
chair of the history department at the University of Chicago. He
specializes in modern Korean history and contemporary international
relations.

In May 2007, Cumings was the first recipient of the Kim Dae Jung
Academic Award for Outstanding Achievements and Scholarly
Contributions to Democracy, Human Rights and Peace granted by
South Korea. The award is named in honor of 2000 Nobel Peace Prize
winner and former President of South Korea Kim Dae Jung. The award
recognizes Cumings for his "outstanding scholarship, and engaged
public activity regarding human rights and democratization during
the decades of dictatorship in Korea, and after the dictatorship
ended in 1987."

Cumings' Origins of the Korean War, Vol. 1 (1980) won the John
K. Fairbank Prize of the American Historical Association, and his
Origins of the Korean War, Vol. 2 (1991) won the Quincy Wright Book
Award of the International Studies Association.[1]
Byker
2017-08-14 19:23:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by lo yeeOn
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/13/america-carpet-bombed-north-korea-remember-that-past
The US Air Force subjected North Koreans to three years of `rain and
ruin'. It was a living nightmare - one that still haunts the country to
this day
We're just waiting for Little Kim to do something stupid, like trying to
repeat a "Pueblo" incident: http://tinyurl.com/csnuqg8

Only now are we learning that they damn near got their yellow asses nuked.
The Johnson administration considered several risky courses of action to
retaliate for the Pueblo seizure. They included a blockade of North Korean
ports, air strikes on military targets, an attack across the Demilitarized
Zone separating the two Koreas, a phony intelligence leak to the Soviets
that the United States planned to attack North Korea, and a "show of force"
by U.S. naval and air units outside the port of Wonsan, where the Pueblo was
being held. http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB453/

In the tense aftermath of the Pueblo seizure, Pentagon war planners weighed
using nuclear weapons to stop a possible communist invasion of South Korea,
as well as mounting a massive air attack to wipe out North Korea's air
force. The nuclear option, eerily codenamed "Freedom Drop," envisioned the
use of American aircraft and land-based missiles to incinerate onrushing
North Korean troops:

4. Nuclear contingency plan against North Korea - subsequent to the PUEBLO
incident~CINCPAC forwarded a basic outline for planning a nuclear
contingency plan against North Korea. A CJCS message informed CINCPA that
his planning concept appeared appropriate and to forward his
detailed plan for JCS review and approval. This plan he has termed FREEDOM
DROP -

a. Coordinated nuclear plan using U.S. tactical aircraft and/or HONEST JOHN
rockets and SERGEANT missiles.

b. Three options varying from several military targets to all significant
North Korean offensive and logistical support targets -- 70 KT maximum
yield -- flexible selection of options or sequential use of options.

c. FREEDOM DROP has been reviewed under the procedures of MOP 144 and
approved as submitted by CINCPAC. Message informing CINCPAC of the approval
has been withheld by direction of the Chairman, JCS, for a propitious time
of release.

http://tinyurl.com/jz9adsm
lo yeeOn
2017-08-14 23:50:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by lo yeeOn
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/13/america-carpet-bombed-north-korea-remember-that-past
Post by lo yeeOn
The US Air Force subjected North Koreans to three years of `rain and
ruin'. It was a living nightmare - one that still haunts the country to
this day
We're just waiting for Little Kim to do something stupid, like trying to
repeat a "Pueblo" incident: http://tinyurl.com/csnuqg8
You might be. But it seems to me that the South Koreans aren't! They
are not in control of their destiny - it's the ruling class of the U.S.

You don't think Bruce Cumings know something about how the Koreans
were abused by the US Air Force?

Cumings wrote:
The US Air Force subjected North Koreans to three years of `rain and
ruin'. It was a living nightmare - one that still haunts the country
to this day

Cumings certainly knows about the Pueblo seizure. Why didn't he
qualify his article by saying "but they deserve every bit of it".

You think what the "Johnson administration" did or considered to have
done a glorious example of the U.S. history. A lot of grievances
lingered from the Korean War and the lingering hostilities the
U.S. showed toward North Korea. If anything, our continuing
occupation of South Korea put this country in very bad light.

And your racist language really doesn't help. And the account you
quoted simply put the U.S. in very poor light. Korea is so far from
continental U.S., why do we have to station 29,000 troops in Sk all
the time and even built an American city named Camp Humphreys to host
up to a quarter of a million of Americans and relatives in Korea? It
is naked colonialism!

And the South Koreans don't want the THAAD system deployed on their
land but we're foring them to accept it. It's bad foreign policy.
It's not what America should be.

lo yeeOn

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/636790/south-north-korea-latest-news-thaad-protests-shut-down-kim-jong-un

Losing it would strip the US and South Korea of a formidable barrier
against Kim Jong-un's missile arsenal.

In Seongju County, 180 miles south of North Korea's border, a THAAD
survey has already been delayed.

The US army said it needed "additional cooperation of nearby
residents" for the survey to go ahead.

And on Saturday, 100 residents of the county came out to oppose
further THAAD deployment.

Moon Jae-in, the South's new president, agreed four additional mobile
launchers for the system.

Once they're active, the country would technically have a full THAAD
battery, according to local media.

But residents were having none of it, taking to the streets to voice
their displeasure at the government's move.

Among locals, some fear the X-band radar used by the launchers could
harm health and agriculture, the Korea Herald reports.

Others are concerned about the diplomatic impact, with Russia and
China both strongly opposing the system in case it's used to spy on
them.

Noh Soo-deok - a 76-year-old from Soseong-ri, a village in Seongju
County - appealed to Donald Trump directly to halt the roll-out.

"I don't know what THAAD is for and why you are bringing it to my
village," she said. "But THAAD seems like a bad thing.

"The military is imposing it on us as if we are in war. My village was
quiet and peaceful even during the Korean War.

"Why do we have to have such war machines here now? I hear that once
THAAD is here, I cannot live here anymore."

During his campaign, President Moon called for a parliamentary review
of the deployment.

And in June, the liberal leader suspended further roll-outs, only to
change his mind in July.

It comes after North Korea snubbed peace talks with Moon as "nonsense"
last month.
Post by lo yeeOn
Only now are we learning that they damn near got their yellow asses nuked.
The Johnson administration considered several risky courses of action to
retaliate for the Pueblo seizure. They included a blockade of North Korean
ports, air strikes on military targets, an attack across the Demilitarized
Zone separating the two Koreas, a phony intelligence leak to the Soviets
that the United States planned to attack North Korea, and a "show of force"
by U.S. naval and air units outside the port of Wonsan, where the Pueblo was
being held. http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB453/
In the tense aftermath of the Pueblo seizure, Pentagon war planners weighed
using nuclear weapons to stop a possible communist invasion of South Korea,
as well as mounting a massive air attack to wipe out North Korea's air
force. The nuclear option, eerily codenamed "Freedom Drop," envisioned the
use of American aircraft and land-based missiles to incinerate onrushing
4. Nuclear contingency plan against North Korea - subsequent to the PUEBLO
incident~CINCPAC forwarded a basic outline for planning a nuclear
contingency plan against North Korea. A CJCS message informed CINCPA that
his planning concept appeared appropriate and to forward his
detailed plan for JCS review and approval. This plan he has termed FREEDOM
DROP -
a. Coordinated nuclear plan using U.S. tactical aircraft and/or HONEST JOHN
rockets and SERGEANT missiles.
b. Three options varying from several military targets to all significant
North Korean offensive and logistical support targets -- 70 KT maximum
yield -- flexible selection of options or sequential use of options.
c. FREEDOM DROP has been reviewed under the procedures of MOP 144 and
approved as submitted by CINCPAC. Message informing CINCPAC of the approval
has been withheld by direction of the Chairman, JCS, for a propitious time
of release.
http://tinyurl.com/jz9adsm
lo yeeOn
2017-08-15 04:17:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by lo yeeOn
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/13/america-carpet-bombed-north-korea-remember-that-past
Post by lo yeeOn
The US Air Force subjected North Koreans to three years of `rain and
ruin'. It was a living nightmare - one that still haunts the country to
this day
We're just waiting for Little Kim to do something stupid, like trying to
repeat a "Pueblo" incident: http://tinyurl.com/csnuqg8
You might be. But it seems to me that the South Koreans aren't! They
are not in control of their destiny - it's the ruling class of the U.S.

You don't think Bruce Cumings knows something about how the Koreans
were abused by the US Air Force?

Cumings wrote:
The US Air Force subjected North Koreans to three years of `rain and
ruin'. It was a living nightmare - one that still haunts the country
to this day

Cumings certainly knows about the Pueblo seizure. Why didn't he
qualify his article by saying something like "since these people are
so bad, they could have deserved Johnson's nuke treatment"?

You think what the "Johnson administration" did or considered to have
done is a glorious example of the U.S. history? A lot of grievances
still linger from the atrocities of the war and the continuing overt
U.S. hostility toward North Korea must have generated lingering
reciprocal feelings from the its people. So, if our military vessel
was caught on Korean waters, its capture would be expect. Why did
that incident warrant your "yellow asses" slur.

If anything, our military's continuing occupation of South Korea put
us in very bad light.

And Johnson is an exceedingly bad example of a President. How many
tens of thousands of America's sons did he needlessly get killed in
Viet Nam? We would have been much better off without him.

And your racist language really doesn't help. And the account you
quoted simply put the U.S. in very poor light. Korea is so far from
continental U.S., why do we have to station 29,000 troops in SK all
the time and even built an American city named Camp Humphreys to host
up to a quarter of a million of Americans and relatives in Korea? It
is naked colonialism!

And the South Koreans don't want the THAAD system deployed on their
land but we're forcing them to accept it. It's bad foreign policy.
It's not what America should be.

lo yeeOn

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/636790/south-north-korea-latest-news-thaad-protests-shut-down-kim-jong-un

Losing it would strip the US and South Korea of a formidable barrier
against Kim Jong-un's missile arsenal.

In Seongju County, 180 miles south of North Korea's border, a THAAD
survey has already been delayed.

The US army said it needed "additional cooperation of nearby
residents" for the survey to go ahead.

And on Saturday, 100 residents of the county came out to oppose
further THAAD deployment.

Moon Jae-in, the South's new president, agreed four additional mobile
launchers for the system.

Once they're active, the country would technically have a full THAAD
battery, according to local media.

But residents were having none of it, taking to the streets to voice
their displeasure at the government's move.

Among locals, some fear the X-band radar used by the launchers could
harm health and agriculture, the Korea Herald reports.

Others are concerned about the diplomatic impact, with Russia and
China both strongly opposing the system in case it's used to spy on
them.

Noh Soo-deok - a 76-year-old from Soseong-ri, a village in Seongju
County - appealed to Donald Trump directly to halt the roll-out.

"I don't know what THAAD is for and why you are bringing it to my
village," she said. "But THAAD seems like a bad thing.

"The military is imposing it on us as if we are in war. My village was
quiet and peaceful even during the Korean War.

"Why do we have to have such war machines here now? I hear that once
THAAD is here, I cannot live here anymore."

During his campaign, President Moon called for a parliamentary review
of the deployment.

And in June, the liberal leader suspended further roll-outs, only to
change his mind in July.

It comes after North Korea snubbed peace talks with Moon as "nonsense"
last month.
Post by lo yeeOn
Only now are we learning that they damn near got their yellow asses nuked.
The Johnson administration considered several risky courses of action to
retaliate for the Pueblo seizure. They included a blockade of North Korean
ports, air strikes on military targets, an attack across the Demilitarized
Zone separating the two Koreas, a phony intelligence leak to the Soviets
that the United States planned to attack North Korea, and a "show of force"
by U.S. naval and air units outside the port of Wonsan, where the Pueblo was
being held. http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB453/
In the tense aftermath of the Pueblo seizure, Pentagon war planners weighed
using nuclear weapons to stop a possible communist invasion of South Korea,
as well as mounting a massive air attack to wipe out North Korea's air
force. The nuclear option, eerily codenamed "Freedom Drop," envisioned the
use of American aircraft and land-based missiles to incinerate onrushing
4. Nuclear contingency plan against North Korea - subsequent to the PUEBLO
incident~CINCPAC forwarded a basic outline for planning a nuclear
contingency plan against North Korea. A CJCS message informed CINCPA that
his planning concept appeared appropriate and to forward his
detailed plan for JCS review and approval. This plan he has termed FREEDOM
DROP -
a. Coordinated nuclear plan using U.S. tactical aircraft and/or HONEST JOHN
rockets and SERGEANT missiles.
b. Three options varying from several military targets to all significant
North Korean offensive and logistical support targets -- 70 KT maximum
yield -- flexible selection of options or sequential use of options.
c. FREEDOM DROP has been reviewed under the procedures of MOP 144 and
approved as submitted by CINCPAC. Message informing CINCPAC of the approval
has been withheld by direction of the Chairman, JCS, for a propitious time
of release.
http://tinyurl.com/jz9adsm
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